Hey Philo, how many thousands of times must we hear one Christian saying of other Christians "Oh, but they weren't really Christians..." Or "The Leaders were not followers of the teachings and attitudes of Jesus."
Have you given up everything you own, to follow his footsteps?

This thread I now feel has run its course.
It went for much longer than I expected
and I wish to Thank everyone who contributed
to it.

I have always believed that not only is a close
encounter with traditional literature a
cross-cultural experience, it also provides an
historical, cultural, aesthetic and spiritual
experience.

In the words of Maurice Saxby:

"If the blue of the Aegean deepens and intensifies
as Icarus and Daedalus fly overhead, and if at
Delphi the Oracle still speaks to men of imagination,
then the bora ring or a fish carved into rock can
point to an ordering of life's chaos, the possibility
of reconciling the present with the past and of
personal harmony in a world threatened with
disintegration..."

Grim,
Learn what is meant by Jesus definition of being his followers. No where did he tell all his followers to give up all their posessions. Even the apostle Peter had a house and he went back to his boat fishing following Jesus death. It means surrender all for the cause including onself.

Dear Philo,

It is nonsense that the lives of those in power in the Church are condemned by Jesus. That is in your mind. Jesus died a number of years ago. He was not a Christian when he died. As a Jew he would wonder about you claiming to follow him while rejecting his Jewish religion. There is no reason to think he would approve of any Christian.

The Wars of the Reformation ended quite a while ago. Both sides were murderers, but even murderers have their good points.

The truth is that Jesus has no followers. Jews do not need him since they have the Jewish Bible with Jesus' best lines such as "Love they neighbour as thyself." Christians don't follow him because Jesus was never a Christian. Christians founded a new religion in his name but don't follow the religion of Jesus.

Dear Pynchme,

Thanks for your reasonable tone. I believe temporal distinctions and those socially constructed are the only meaningful distinctions. In the grave there are no distinctions. We are all dead.

Slaves occupied many slots from workers in the mines who did not live very long to managers of estates. However, all slaves were not free to leave. It is more than mere social disadvantage.

Dear ALGOREisRICH,

Missionaries should show a little sensitivity and not harass people.

Hey Philo, what about Matthew 19:21
Jesus answered, "if you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in Heaven. Then come, follow me".
Don't tell me, let me guess. This line is open to interpretation, that only a 'true' Christian can possibly hope to understand.
Apologies, Foxy, for 'bringing not love, but a sword', to your friendly post.

Dear David F...

lets ammend the RRT to include 'No missionary bugging of uninterested people" :)