Paul1405,
Typicle underachiever symptons there mate, attack the 'hard working' succesfull person, not the issue at stake.

BTW, my staff are very well paid and if you were to have followed my posts yopu will have realised this by now. But, I only hire the best!

>>>tips another form of begging. Or, being paid what they are worth. After all, if one is good at their job, don't they deserve to be better paid?

Now individual,makes a very good point. Staff get paid in advance, assumming they are good at thier job.

I think that they should be made prove themselves first.

Perhaps a 'tiered pay level' would be a good thing, say leveles within levels.

At the moment, in my industry, one gets paid for the time they have spent in the industry. However, someone just out of their time may be far better than another with 10 years experience.

Why should they get paid the same.

You see the award hourly rate is set by the standards of the poorest worker.

Is this fair on the employer, considering they must jump through hoops to get rid of them if they slacken off after a trial period. And it happens!

I think the american system may be worth considering. You get paid what you are worth.

It would make workers compete for jobs and improve productivity.

After all, one can't continue to expect a pay rise just because the CPI goes up. They have to perform for it don't you think.

Take the hotel worker. She is worthless to the employer, yet, being a multi national employer, she is protected by law and vertually can't be sacked.

Meanwhile, a budding young enthusiest is wanting a job at the hotel but there is no position available as they have to much 'dead wood' that can't be sacked.

Rehctub, at the end of the day its all about you. You making all the decisions. Who gets paid and don't, who works and who don't. As for me 8 years of study, qualified engineer, 38 years working, children grown up and successful, and that's an underachiever in you words. What's your record?

US Bureau of Labor Statistics:
Food and beverage serving workers derive their earnings from a combination of hourly wages and tips. Earnings vary greatly. Fast-food workers usually do not receive tips, so their wage rates may be higher than those in full-service restaurants, but their overall earnings might be lower. In many full-service restaurants, tips are higher than wages. In some restaurants, workers contribute all or a portion of their tips to a tip pool, which is distributed among qualifying workers. Tip pools allow workers who don't receive tips from customers, such as dining room attendants, to share in the rewards of good service.
In May 2008, median hourly wages (including tips) of waitstaff $8.01. The middle 50%earned between $7.32/$10.35. The lowest 10% less than $6.73, and the highest 10% more than $14.26. For most waitstaff, higher earnings are primarily the result of receiving more in tips rather than higher hourly wages, staff in busy or expensive restaurants earn the most.
Bartenders had median hourly wages (including tips) of $8.54. The middle 50 percent earned between $7.53 and $10.98. The lowest 10% less than $7.00, and the highest 10% more than $14.93. Like waitstaff, bartenders employed in public bars may receive more than half of their earnings as tips. Service bartenders often are paid higher hourly wages to offset their lower tip earnings.
Median wages of combined food preparation and serving workers, including fast food, were $7.90. Fast-food workers usually do not get tips.
Many inexperienced workers earn the Federal minimum wage ($7.25 per hour July, 2009). Also, various minimum wage exceptions apply under specific circumstances to disabled workers, full-time students, youth under age 20 in their first 90 days of employment, tipped employees, and student-learners. Tipped employees are those who customarily and regularly receive more than $30 a month in tips. The employer may consider tips as part of wages, but the employer must pay at least $2.13 an hour in direct wages

With the average wage in America at around $20/HR it would seem the lucky people working in Food and Beverage service are doing well if they can make half that per hour, including tips.
Rehctub, when you eat out do you leave a tip?

Tips...hmm... an interesting topic since these are cultural add-ons that reflect the national character more than anything else.

When I arrived in Oz, many years ago, we took a taxi in Melbourne somewhere and agonised over how much to tip the driver, as one is expected to do in the UK.

In the end, we managed to gather up 10% and just hoped that that was the Oz level too.

To our great surprise, and relief when we worked out what it meant, the driver was furious and hurled all the money after us out the passenger door window yelling 'bloody Poms... we earn real wages over here, keep your bloody tips'.

Either it wasn't a big enough tip, or, the egalitarian nature of the country was genuine and people did not have to beg for tips to live.

(Under Hawke Keating Howard Rudd and their neo-liberalism our country is no longer 'egalitarian').

It was the latter, although I see that tip jars are appearing in cafes these days.

The only tip I offer these days is to 'go and join a union and get your industry some decent wages'.

The Missos cover cafes, and like the Shoppos, they have failed to unionise this industry of small businesses, and people who work in the industry are too young to understand the role of unions in the community.

Tips are undignified, and a power relationship that puts the worker down.

Australia should say no to tipping, a demeaning cheapskates view that reflects the master-servant relationship that underpins our employment situation even today.

Tips are like the employer favoured 'bonus'. A cheap way out of paying wages that avoids superannuation and, like employing casuals, allows them to cut wages to buy their tax deductible 4WD when the balance sheet looks a bit dodgy.

There are many cooperative workplaces in the world.

That seems to be a more civilised method of organising secure work and a reasonable level of income for all involved.... greedy ego driven people, of course, hate such mechanisms.

TBC & Paul1405

In full agreement with all your points.

I worked as a waiter for a while living in USA - the tips are absolutely vital to survival. At the first restaurant I worked, I received no wage at all until my uniform was paid for by withholding my hourly rate. Also there is no guarantee that every patron will leave a tip - even after exemplary service. As TBC noted:

>> Tips are undignified, and a power relationship that puts the worker down. <<

A decent boss values their staff and that includes a reasonable living wage as well as safe working conditions.