Rehctub, if you don't like paying hourly rates, perhaps you could try moving to piece rates? My brother-in-law was a boner at Homebush abbatoir for years. They were paid piece-rates on a per carcass basis with the fastest workers making the most money. In my own business I pay both hourly rates and piece rates depending on what the work is. For milling, it's all piece rates, since the biggest impediment to productivity is the waste of time between cuts, which can be reduced if the worker is moving faster. and thinking about the process. For general yard work, I pay by the hour, since the worker has little influence on the overall productivity. It's horses for courses.

I should also point out that I know several businesses that make all of their employees obtain an ABN so they can be paid as contractors rather than employees. I think that's despicable, unless they are genuinely able to set their own hours and they supply their own gear and are properly compensated for the cost of insurances, etc.

Pynchme:"Once upon a time Unions represented workers, but they are now run by self-serving fast tracking uni graduates who collude with management rather than challenge it."

Could not agree more. The Unions need a good kicking up the khyber in my view. Get rid of the Ludwigs and Shortens and Combets, etc, etc, etc and get back to basics - a fair day's work for a fair day's pay and stick it up the boss if he tries to rip you off.

R0bert
By law, apples must be sold by 'weight' and can't be sold 'per unit'.

STG >>Thank Christ you're not running the country...

Wow! hit a nerve hey!

So why the anger. What's wrong with a fair hours work for a fair hours pay?

>>The theory and prac Butchers undertake in their apprenticeships to later on receive 'pittance' saddens me greatly.

Yes, all but gone these days. Us butchers want apprentices to attend colledges, but the governments think the present system is fine. They are so wrong, but as usual (all governments) fail to listen to the experts.

>>Or do you already receive government assistance?
Yes we do.

BTW, good buthers net around $1400 for a 'long' 5 day week, or, $280 per day, TAKE HOME! How's that compared to a 'desk jocky'?

>>>It seems like you're always looking for ways to exploit the efforts of the little bloke.

Pynchme,I'm set for life, I am now helping my kids. I also pay well above the award rates, but I only hire good staff. Not interested in lazy 'clock watchers'. In fact, I just sacked one and he can't find work. He had the world at his feet, but couldn't see it. To many sickies, bad attitude.

I gave him no notice because I simply signed him off as a trademen. Go figure!

My real concern is moving forward.

I see in 10 or 20 years from now we will have no manufacturing and a country full of 'middle management' with no-one left to do the work.

Then what?

I am very fast worker yet when I worked casual, I did the work of 2 or 3. Yet, I got paid the same as the slowest. Is that fair in the view of my fan club?

As always, when you pay by the hour, the pace is set by the slowest worker.

If a typest can type 60 words per minute, why do they get paid the same as one who types 35?

Why not say when you have finnished your jobs, you can go home?

What's the problem here?

It was a statement, not an exclamation. No nerves hit nor anger here.

rechtub did you truly think, after reading only the title I would not know it was you?
Remember my first formal full time job?
Running in and out of Sydney's butcher shops, first one at 3.30 am, last about 6 pm.
Weighing and loading the bones and fat, placing it on a truck and doing two loads a day.
Never met a butcher like you, not one was so grumpy so out of touch.
So allergic to,,,his customers.
Workers get paid in tenths of hours, 6 minute intervals.
Be late by 2 minutes you get docked 6.
minimum 4 hours to be called to work out of hours.
Without workers we would not have butchers.
A worker sells his/her product time and efforts no differently than you sell your snags.
Do you know bloke this worker then a child never knew if he was sick he could take the day of.
Or that 12 hour days meant over time or indeed extra pay?
Did you see the surprised look on my face on that Friday night, on getting out of the truck as usual the boss handing me my pay as usual, said these words.
Sorry mate, will not need you again, you are getting too old have to find another kid or pay is too much.

rehctub weight/unit the principle is pretty much the same. The boss get's to make the decision regarding different pricing levels for small purchases vs bulk purchases. The issue of how well people work is a different one to the examples you gave in the opening post.

There is scope for employers to provide bonus's etc to employee's who are above average.

R0bert

There is scope for employers to provide bonus's etc to employee's who are above average.
RÔBERT,
That scope in turn is opportunism for government to tax more. Incentive gone again !
Bring on flat tax !!