Oh come on! Let's be honest and start addressing perverts for what they are: poofters and dykes who can't cope with reality and can't get their minds above their navels because are unable to form a normal relationship with a member of the opposite sex.

Try solo sex if needs be, but get used to the idea that sex is not the be all and end all of a a decent and fulfilling life. There are any amount of happy and celibate people who have found the meaning of life without falling prey to disgusting, unnatural behaviour.

Spendocrat,

I apologise for asking you to explain yourself in relation to your unwarranted abuse of me. I unwittingly encouraged you to dig yourself further into your role of gormless ignoramus. I assure you that I thought you were intelligent enough to be worthy of normal sociable intercourse. My mistake. Sorry. I really should be more sensitive to the intellectually deprived.

Gee, I can't imagine why anybody would think that Leigh is bigoted.

Fortunately there are some reasonable people participating in this debate.

Snout, no sorry I don't. I think it was on SBS on a weeknight but am not sure. I've had a bit of a look around their website but have not found it yet.

It was very interesting in part because of some of the statistical oddities (older brothers don't seem to have any impact on the orientation of younger brothers if the younger brothers are left handed but very clear statistical outcomes for right handers). They also looked at some interesting case studies with twins where some characteristics were evident very early. Maybe more about challenges to what it means to be male than necessarily sexual preference but still interesting. In one case one twin who is really into the whole toy soldier, truck thing. His twin was almost totally the opposite, all soft colours, soft toys and totally different interests.

If I find it I'll let you know.

R0bert

"But I prefer to try to understand the WHY, even if I dont like something. So thank you for bringing these insights to us."

Countrygal, you sound like an intelligent lady. There was a
book published some years ago called "Brainsex", it should
still be around. It discussed the scientific data regarding
gays, which showed that hormone levels at crucial stages of
fetal development, were a key issue. Its at the point where
they can create gay rats and monkeys in the lab, by fiddling
with these. It covers other stuff too, so is certainly worth
a read.

The most amusing story on this topic that I can recall, was when
some Xtian US fundie group was founded to "help" the
gay Xtians. In the end, the two male founders ran off with
one another :)

Snout, I rarely bother to wade thru threads full of people shouting at each other but I found your post well written and, most importantly, interesting. I've just recently read "The Birth Order Book" by Kevin Leman and was staggered by how much our character is determined simply by where we came in the family. This just adds to the mix.

Well its as clear as day to me that Leigh has been in love with his right or left hand for years now - so we should have some understanding for his anxiety if we all started discussing any kind of loving relationship, be it between men or women.

This leads me to what i think is the core of the discussion here - if homophobia did not exist would we be discussing homosexuality as being the outcome of nature or nurture - any more than we would be discussing hetrosexuality? I don't think so.

Liegh provides us with a good example of someone who was enculturated in believing in particular sexual taboos. Poofs, fags, gays, are interestingly all part of my teenage son’s intra-boy language but does he really hate gay people? No. But it is used as sorting mechanism amougst teenage boys, no different to my own teenage years.

To sort out what you ask? One could easily say its a sorting mechanism to sort out sexuality in a peer group but I think it much more than this, much more deeply embedded, much more complex.

Psychoanalysis or biology are useful in terms of analysing some common variables but I don’t think they are anymore reliable or accurate in determining these issues than relying on Leigh standing on a street corner and asking him to point out “who is” –or “who is not”.

So at the end of the day who cares, we need more love in the world.