Dear DreamOn,

Dr Collins was speaking from experience
and he's a respected commentator on the
Catholic Church and a specialist editor
on religion. He knows what he's talking
about.

What I like about him is that he offers
a comprehensive account of not only
what's wrong with Catholicism but also what's
right.. He is an honest and expert insider,
an analist. He examines why there is
scepticism about the Church as an institution
and a movement for people to seek spirituality
elsewhere. He does not shy away from the
difficult questions.

You can't really judge from one paragraph -
perhaps you also should read the book as I
recommended to Proxy?

Dear Proxy,

I've over-stayed my time on this thread.
I should have left ages ago, along with Suze
and when I said I would.

Before I go I've just got these few words
that I'd like to add.

Homosexuality is considered by the Catholic Church
hierarchy (and the Catholic Encyclopedia and the
Catechism of the Catholic Church) as being -
"intrinsically disordered." Many religious people
would agree.

However,the American Psychological Association's
Statement on homosexuality, is the following:

"The research on homosexuality is very clear.
Homosexuality is neither a mental illness nor
moral depravity. It is simply the way a minority
of our population expresses human love and sexuality.
Study after study documents the mental health of
gay men and women. Studies of judgement, stability
and social and vocational adaptiveness all show that
gay men and women function every bit as well as
heterosexuals."

Pedophilia of course is a totally different matter.

Foxy, "He is an honest and expert insider, an analist."

Heh, heh, that is a good one. It helps me to find others who similarly draft in haste and make the odd boob or two.

Dear Cornflower,

I needed a good laugh, Thank You!

But if we look at the word "analysis,"
it's got the word "anal," in it for a
reason, perhaps? ;-)

I think you reveal your pro-catholic bias with your recent comments *Foxy*

I have seen collins on Late Line and in a few other media appearances, but he is not the sort of individual that earns my respect.

Reason being, catholicism is an abomination, guilty of some of the worst crimes in recorded history and EVEN NOW, the people who control it are as corrupt as ever. Not only are they riddled with pedaphilic filth, but they are riddled with those who obstruct justice and thereby aid and albeit these crimes. And here, we see a range of apoligists who are fond to quote from the books of catholic reformists.

As one friend asserts, the church puts the mafia to shame.

They discrimate not only against gays, but refuse to administer the sacraments to anyone who won't subscribe to their infantile non-sensical cosmology, including woman, the divorced and the list goes on, in a vein little better than any other despotic regime and its cronies.

I assure you, I would not waste my time reading a book by one who seeks to apportion blame on "Closet Queens" That in my view makes him no better than any other homophobe.

In fact *Foxy* I am reasonably sure that you do not want to know what I would do to the likes of pell and ratsinger and I am not at liberty pursuant to the rules of this place to elaborate further.

Suffice to say I would see to it that at a minimum, they suffered in incarceration for the rest of their days.

Dear DreamOn,

You obviously haven't read any of my past posts
to draw the conclusions that you have about me.
Just for the record, I have stated that
secularized organized religions have become
in many cases, as calcified as other institutions
that form the structure of our modern world.

I used to think I wasn't religious, and perhaps
I wasn't. I didn't like what organized religion
had done to the world. I still don't. I have come
to see, however, that true religion is internal,
not external. The spirit within us can't be blamed
for the blasphemies carried out in its name. What some
have done in the name of religion, projecting their
neuroses, even perpetrating evil on the world does not
make religion as a mystical phenomenon invalid.
And - people like Cardinal Pell are the antithesis
of Christ's teachings. But had you read my past posts
you would know what I think of Pell.

Our religious institutions have far too often
become handmaidens of the status quo, while genuine
religious experience is anything but that.

Religious institutions, as such, are not the only
arbiters of religious experience. They do not hold
some franchise on our spiritual life. They are
consultants and frameworks, but they are not God
Himself. We should not confuse the path with the
destination.

I don't think you're being fair in making summations
about me. You don't know me, nor have you ever read
anything by Dr Paul Collins to be able to make a
fair and rational assessment of the man. You simply
saw him in an interview on TV. I wasn't that impressed
by Richard Dawkins on TV either. However, I am
currently reading his book, "The God Delusion," and
am getting a totally different picture. That's why
I suggested that you read the Collins book. You don't
want to, fair enough. This is after all only a
discussion. One in which we don't have to agree.