GK are you a shadow minister?
I see the same need to rant and rave in you as many who are pirating the Liberal party.
A commitment to scream but not do anything.
To use fear but not truth.
To insult and even put words in our mouths, have no doubt this forum knows I am a labor voter.
Yet I have started many threads condemning them.
That will never be seen here from you.
Are you even in part aware your every word convicts you as not worth reading?
You however have a constituency, followers, those who seconds after Howard went took to following American Republicanism, giving up the need for Australian policy's and directions.
Now before your impending fall, conservatives must ignore such as you, retreat back to the ground they walked away from, the socialist left in your terms land that both put Howard in office and once he forgot took his seat.
That [funny stuff GK] socialist land is Labor land today, the only land voters want watch this space.

Dear Geoffrey,

The only way in which a country can work properly
is for management and labour to co-operate with
one another, nor condemn one another.

But the sad truth is that condemnation is the only
language your mob seems to undertand. Take the quote
from Peko-Wallsend boss - Charles Copeman:

"It isn't a matter for conciliation, it's a matter
for arbitration. We are not prepared to conciliate!"

Obviously the inevitable expansion of capital with its
attendant social inequality and natural destruction brooks
no interference and allows no moral judgements.

What a great pity that the glorious mess of money and guns
that makes up part of the world we see on television every
night is the vision of your Party come true. Mr Abbott and
his colleagues should not be encouraged to allow it to
come any closer to home.

And as for my having the "decency" to give you the source of
the 144 deaths. Well, if you had the "decency" to read the
websites that I gave in my earlier post - you'd realize that
the source has already been given. Kindly go back and re-read!
And by the way - I am not "retreating," from this discussion.
I simply feel that continuing further discussions would serve
no constructive purpose

cont'd ...

You might be a Liberal if ...

1) You think "proletariat" is a type of cheese.

2) You've named your kids -
"Deduction One" and "Deduction Two."

3) You're a pro-lifer, but support the
death penalty.

4) When people say "Marx" you think "Groucho."

5) You've ever said, "Clean air?"
"Looks clean to me!"

6) You've ever urged someone to pull themselves up
by their bootstraps, when they don't even have shoes.

7) You've ever called education a luxury.

8) You believe that the world is divided into
two categories: "Them" and "Us."

9) Life is only tolerable when you can look down on
someone else.

10) You are pro the Monarchy, pro big business,
pro development, pro nuclear weapons.

11) You are anti-conservation, anti-union,
anti multiculturalism and anti government.

12) You refer to people as "rusted-on socialists/lefties."

Dear Foxy,

Thank you for clarifying your reference, but I really suggest that you go back and read it yourself. I quote from your source, GreenLeft, "Australian Workers Union national vice-president Paul Howes explained to Green Left Weekly........ He explained that in the past nine years there had been 144 deaths in the mining industry in Australia. No amount of gold is worth a worker’s life, he said.” You said, "There had been 144 deaths in the mining industry in Australia prior to the incident." You ought to learn to quote correctly.

Howes was on the Canberra Press Club Luncheon broadcast last week, and let me tell you, he has about as much regard for my side of politics as I have for his. He is very confrontational. It is not all one-sided.

I remember the Copeman statement and I was on his side.

By the way, what was the point of your list of twelve characteristics describing a liberal? Are you suggesting any of those characteristics’, with the exception of the last, applies to me?

Once again I repeat that I am delighted with all the gratuitous advice offered from your rusted-on socialists.

Lastly, ponder the real wage increases under 13 years of Hawke/Keating and their accord with the unions, and then contrast the increases that occurred under 11 years of Howard who also reduced taxes by more than a third. The average working family was better off under Howard and no Great Big New Tax!

Geoffrey Kelley

Paul Howe's will follow a bloke called Bill Shorten and one day become Prime minister of this county.
OUR GK will have however to watch as his party faces yet another leadership challenge after the impending defeat.
Such talent to burn in the ALP so so much rubbish badly needing the flames in our Republican party, oh then after it merges with the cow cockys we may get a new name?
Country Labor going bush, Nationals? just going.

Dear Geoffrey,

You said, "You ought to learn to quote correctly."

Actually Geoffrey - I wasn't giving a direct quote
regarding the 144 deaths in the mining industry in
Australia. I was merely paraphrasing what Paul Howes
had said. You need to read the actual post to which
you're responding. And, as you yourself quoted -
Paul Howes did confirm:

"He explained that in the PAST NINE YEARS there had
been 144 deaths in the mining industry in Australia."

So I don't understand what your problem is.

You then state that families under Howard were well off.
The voters apparently thought differently. They kicked his
Government out in a landslide - including Howard in his own
Electorate.

You asked me why I posted that list about Liberals?

Simply as a bit of light relief. You keep throwing labels
around - I merely was giving you a taste of your own medicine.
Especially as you keep saying how much you LOVE being attacked
by "Socialists." I wanted to humour you.

But all jokes aside - Geoffrey, we both know that in politics,
it's always one-sided. Labor has always been perceived to
more likely favour the underdog, while Liberal - as the party
more closely tied to business interests.

Today, however, I feel that there is a breakdown of traditional
loyalties in favour of a more fluid party system, in which
people pick and choose among personalities and positions
with little regard for party labels.

Certainly, this trend towards a dealignment of party loyalties
would not be unexpected in a postindustrial society whose
hallmarks are individualism and choice.

Anyway, Thank You for a robust discussion. It has been
most informative. Constructive debating is an art.
And many of us still haven't learnt to avoid using
emotionally charged words or personal attacks on
someone we perceive to be an opponent. (That's an
admission of intellectual bankruptcy).

However, as I've stated previously, the months ahead should
prove interesting.

Do try to treat people as individuals.
They just may surprise you.
That's the wonder of life - even the worst
kind of people can surprise!