*Go Foxy!* Yes, we are all Human Beings aren't we, irrespective of whether projecting that view is conducive to doing business with the "Butcher's of Beijing" or not?

..

*Runner* I always thought you were a Nun, but other comments suggest not. Would you care to clarify?

Fluff or Noodle?

I was thinking, have you ever considered an inter faith exchange where you exchange your "Vows of Chastity" for a "Vow of Silence?"

Don't mind a bit of medical waste poppet. I'm sure if El GodO wants to send *Baby Jesus* again that there will be no risk of the bucket.
HaHaHa

(Where's *West* when you need him?)

..

So, yes, the Indos do appear to have copped a bad time at the hands of the Dutch. Sadly though, even now, us whitey's, Dutch, Poms, Aussies or otherwsie all get tagged with the same derogatory term - "Bule" pronounced Booley ( "oo" as in moon )

In Bali, further to comments re Arabian practice, the majority of the sh!t jobs are done by the Javanese - a virtual 2nd class.

And all the Mosques just over the water - allegedly heavily contributed to by the Saudis - not many Wahabis, but extended Islam.

And the security check point AGAIN, in the case of myself and all of the other ex-pats I know who regularly make the crossing between Java and Bali don't even get checked. Now, I'm no one special, AND, who's to say that I am not some frothing at the mouth looney with a spite against the guvment? But no one even looks twice when I come in with a car load of traditional Islamists - some with identity documents and some without.

I imagine that that is but the tip of the ice berg. There are thousands of Islamists here, mostly good people too in my experience, but there MUST be SECURITY and whilst they have a really good on paper registration system, it is not enforced, or only rarely.

So, it's not a matter of IF in my view, but just when another tragedy will occur. And what do those p!ss boys in Canberra do knowing all this? I'll tell you. They defer to the politicians, who do a few little paragraphs on the DFAT website recommending no travel to Indo.

Why not a mandatory BIG sign with all the travel agencies and air line ticketing outlets and bang the message home loud and 'ing hard.

..

Oh, I'm very fond of the Indos, and for the most part they have been most courteous and considerate hosts and they have taught me much, for which I am most grateful HOWEVER, zero tolerancey on matters of security.

I note further that whilst I support their right to do their own thing, if they won't pull their executive into line, enforce the standards and make way for complaints and dispute resolution, working collectively for peace and security, then we should withdraw our AID funds until they WANT to do so.

Mining contracts do NOT concern me in the face of the risk of losing people.

Foxy,
Is the Friedman you mention the economist ?
I am afraid that most economists believe that the market can fix everything.
Unfortunately it cannot "fix" the price of oil.
I suggest you read the link below and you will see how hopeless that
approach would be. Alternative energies are the techno fix that will
come in time, but nowhere soon enough.
If we forced down the price of oil (no mention of how to do that) all
that would happen is that OPEC will turn off the tap.
The suggestion is impossible.

http://www.postcarbon.org/article/40503-temporary-recession-or-the-end-of

http://tinyurl.com/ybnhxzk

I read a joke today; Lock three economists in a cellar and leave them.
No worries they say, as soon as our stomachs start grumbling
sandwiches will appear to supply the demand !

Anyone who thinks that infinite growth in a finite world is possible
is either a madman or an economist !

ps I notice no one commented on my suggestion that the Islamic
problem is caused by cousin marriage.

Rather shocking suggestion, but there it is, it must have some effect.

runner
You christians can spout all you want about barbaric moslems et al. Just because you christians have changed your practices (but not your beliefs) does not absolve you of the filth of the crusades, the inquisition, antiscience, sth america, helping hitler, persecution of jews, subjugation of women, kiddie fiddling and all the other nastiness in your history. Poeople in glass houses as they say!

Foxy better that we just stopped buying oil from despots and force them to hold democratic elections either by sanctions, rebellion or even military action. If the price of oil fell renewables would be unable to compete and people would just use more oil. Sadly it may be the only way we sort it out and by that i mean it will only be sorted when the oil has run out and the saudis et al have to face life without all that western income so maybe friedman is right in that the best way to hasten it is reduce the price of oil so it gets used up quicker. Pity about the environment and anyone living near a coastline or the people who rely on monsoons or glaciers for their food production.

I say ban ALL religions everywhere. I could happily live without mother teresa, father bob, the salvos, nuns and religious charitys if it meant living without people like amadinnerjacket or zionists or fred bloody nile or runner. They are all intolerant and antagonistic towards each other and logically they cant all be right so the vast majority (if not all) are wrong in their beliefs and so deserve no consideration. Erroneous beleifs are dangerous and harmfull and SHOULD be suppressed and killed off. Wether it be sacrifising virgins or praying to L ron hubbard if you cant back you beliefs with anything more than some imaginary invisible superfriend in the sky then you have no right to inflict restrictions or dominance over anyone let alone use violent means to get your message through and force others to follow you.

All religions are fundamentalist dogmatism at their cores and they neither serve humanities needs nor assist in our progress materially or socially. Indeed the history of religion has been nothing but war, ignorance, repression, bigotry, injustice, torture, lies, sexual abuse and the impeding of progress. We must stop the religious fools who run our world or they will happily loose nuclear catastrophe on the rest of us and anything else they think will gain them eternal exaltation.

“Western powers should withdraw from these
countries and stop interfering in their affairs.” - Foxy

“Staying out of their affairs - would seem to be
a wise move.” - Foxy

"(one) thing for sure...is that the need
to drive reform in the Arab-Muslim world is as vital
as ever” – Foxy approvingly quoting with Friedman

I know that some people can simultaneously accommodate seemingly contradictory stances,
but for those of us who can’t - what do you mean Foxy?

Is Friedman advocating Western interference in Middle Eastern affairs and are you agreeing?

If so, then it is only a matter of determining the appropriate nature and degree of interference.

Options range (downward) from the “shock and awe” approach as exemplified by GW Bush
to support for popular insurrection as per the opportunity in Iran missed by Obamarama.

An approach I personally think could be effective is exemplified by Father Zakaria Botrous.
Botrous’ television show is beamed into the Middle East via satellite.
He is an expert on the Koran, Hadith and Sunna who delights in pointing out
Islamic idiosyncrasies and contradictions as well as the Holy Prophet’s peccadilloes.
Needless to say he is widely condemned by the Islamic hierarchy,
who nevertheless seem unable to take up his challenges to prove his claims wrong.

Imagine that, instead of honouring Islam and Mohammed,
as Western apologists do for fear of inciting a violent reaction,
and in accordance with their flawed relativistic ideology,
we up the ante and bombard cyberspace with cogent criticism of the “religion of peace”.

This approach is predicated on the belief that when people realise
the dangerous absurdity of Islam they will ultimately jettison it.
And that is what it will take to begin reform in the Middle East.

In the long run I believe this approach will result in less bloodshed.