Yabby,

"How free is Osama bin Laden to become a good Catholic tomorrow?"

Actually the probability is probably more like zero than 5% because, surprise surprise, he has already chosen to be a Muslim.

"Osama's so called free will is clearly coloured by his genes having interacted with his environment,"

Free will is a fundamental desire or choice. Desires do not interact with physical environments. But, how desire is expressed or played out in the physical world is affected by the environment (eg, even though you might want to be rich, your circumstances do not allow it because of social status, ability, personal baggage, competition etc), but the environment does not work backwards and change fundamental human desire.

I think you need to accept that bin Laden is a Muslim because his true desire was already to be one. If he were to change that fundamental desire and become Christian, you're right, he'd certainly have a tough time converting his physical life after all he's done.

With regards to the ACA program.

Rape or no rape, what mother would allow her 12 year old daughter to be out at night, with a 14 year old unsupervised.

Seriously, something has to be done to make parents responsible for their actions, or lack of.

Remember the 12-year-old kid gunned down by police. Why was he at the skate park at that time of night?

Irresponsible patents need to be charged with neglect, and then they may think twice about allowing their kids to run riot, or even better, decide against having kids in the first place.

At least then 'our world' would be a much safer and better place as many of these wayward kids turn out to be the 'scum bags' of society, meaning our kids are afraid to even go to the local mall at night.

Perhaps we need an old fashioned curfew.

Me (on Wednesday, 12 August 2009 6:17:34 AM : "what should be done to compensate Kyle and Jackie O for the trouble she caused? Kyle lost his well-paying job on TV over it, after all? Does he have a cause of action against those who accused him of abusing a rape victim and agitated for his removal?

In the Courier-Mail today http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,25918779-952,00.html

"Teen girl 'lied', Kyle is the victim"

"THE family of the girl at the centre of the 2Day FM radio rape scandal has accused the teenager of lying about the sexual assault and defended Kyle Sandilands as the real victim in the on-air ordeal."

Anyone?

Hahaha.

The joy of life. What fun there is in finding a victim and a villain in every situation. Keeps the world going round!

Even better, self righteously pouring out your indignation of what 'society' has become, and your simplistic solutions for the failings of 'those' people.

Jerry Springer was ahead of his time!

*I think you need to accept that bin Laden is a Muslim because his true desire was already to be one*

Exactly, and if he'd been brought up as a good Catholic boy, given
that he's religious, chances are 95% that he'd be a good Catholic.

Genes interacting with environment. So that so called "choice"
is clearly not as free as we claim. That is my point.

Yabby,

Are you now saying that free will is snuffed out by conditioning (the individuals environment)? On the surface there is some element of truth in that BUT in reality not all possibility are ever fully explored scientifically. Therefore the conclusion you have drawn in the past(or my understanding of it) is highly subjective in the individual. Given our current understanding little more than useless for anything other than highly qualified prediction.

Last night I watched a BBC program on learning abilities for of children while I winced at some of my parenting errors it was made abundantly clear that the interplay between the various components were exceedingly individualistic. i.e. that every individual has different componentary inter-reactions and may give different results except in the generality of statistical analysis. Therefore the only reasonable conclusion other than vague or highly qualified prediction for all intents and specific purposes it's interesting but hardly 95% predictive.

In you example of uncle Osama (I reiterate that not all his possible influences is measurable predictable etc.) all that can be said with 95% predictability that in the absence of any major event he will indeed remain an extremist Muslim may Allah give him his 72 white raisins and soon. But still the scientific assurance is problematic in the extreme.

From my personal (quasi scientific stance) while all perceivable influences need to be assessed I find it unproven that individuals can't change their spots given the right inducement etc.
Is prison that right inducement? I have my doubts but in the absence of viable alternatives I favour increasing options before it gets to the consequential phase.

From a moral stance I have to believe that in order to be responsible for our actions we must have some control over our actions.
Failing that what's left? Not a lot unless you can add something.

In context of the topic KS and crew had a choice but actively chose to be predatory...may they get their raisins...soon.