"Beyond the flower, I see a woman holding a baby inside a picture frame. Anyone else?"

Me too Seeker though the second time I saw a child lying on its back, a woman facing that child and another child lying behind her.

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/media/folder_193/file_1926709.jpg

Just bringing the picture forward a few pages. I see a person with like an oversized jaw in like a white sun frock with a hand stuck back out through the right shoulder strap.

Protagoras saw heaps more than me and I think Seeker nailed it with “spooky”. But it becomes spookier if you are told afterwards that it is a photo. I haven’t spotted babies yet.

I never considered the opening on the far wall to be a window but a painting or a mirror.

Seeker:“That picture must be changing each time we look at it, or we’re all seeing different things. What does that say about these debates aye?”

Well it’s a funny one, I have no problem if someone convinces me I am thinking wrong and no biggy for me to admit I am wrong or even say sorry/thankyou blah.

But I think some others would rather keel over than admit they learnt something new or were introduced to a new way of thinking. But maybe that’s why I ask lots of questions and a few others make lots of statements?

And a song for you Seeker – I can’t help it but when reading stuff from you or runner this song keeps going through my head. Anyone else do that; giver some users their own theme song?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Am1kJM823Vk

Thanks for that song PP. Nothing like Kylie singing about death and hope to cheer me up in the morning…

And here’s one for all the single mums out there, and for the not so single.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLS0Y40WwlA

You really don’t see the woman’s face in the middle right of the framed picture (just to the right of the back window in the centre), looking down at the child she is holding? That head is about 20% of the picture area PP. Amazing.

Piper

This is pure serendipity - the picture I posted just for fun illustrates perfectly how everyone has a different perspective on the same thing. The blurry image in the window - the top part is the roof of a house not a hat. But see whatever you want - that is just being human. Like the old parable about the blind men and the elephant.

Yabby sees women as either fuckable or not - which was my point all those months ago, Houllie, the one you are STILL dwelling on. Time to move on?

I will be 43 this year, my current beau is 11 years younger and yes, unfortunately, I still meet those sad men who claim I am sitting on a fortune - yuk. Having heard this phrase since I was 13 (when I first heard it I didn't have a clue what they were talking about), it indicates that SOME men are still living in the past, with their cave-man view of women. This "bloke-talk" - well not all men talk like that. Women are far more than what is between our legs. I know I will never convince the Yabbies of this world - but I really enjoy 'outing' the silly old coots.

Houllie, beware you too could wind up like Yabby - alone and paying a fortune to root a 20 something. Or worse fathering a child you don't really want.

Strong maternal feelings don't always happen to all women, but due to a mighty mass of hormones that kick in from the start of conception it can mean women, who prior to pregnancy didn't want a child at all, can find themselves very attached to the growing life inside them. In other words they change their minds. What this means for the man who prefers the one-night stand, make sure you either have a vasectomy or at the very least WEAR AN EFFIN' CONDOM.

Pynchme my pleasure. I found it interesting especially the focus on seperating the spiking issue from the consent (or lack thereof) issue. Some good points in there.

I am finding it difficult to be confident that I've got my head around the issues of consent when neither party is in a state where they can give meaningful consent (assuming that neither has passed out) but are willing participants at the time. My impression is that's not all that uncommon but I don't know how often that translates into reported unwanted sexual activity. My impression is that much of the comment around consent seems to rely on gendered stereotypes which don't necessarily reflect individual choices (even if the stereotypes have some validity).

I'm not talking about the situation where one is sober and the other clearly incapicated or where the situation has been strongly manipulated by one to take advantage of the other, rather a bad case of beer glasses or lowering of inhibitions altering judgement at the time.

I've tried to list the things I'm asking myself where the commentary I've seen on the topic leaves me with concerns.

Are both parties guilty of rape if after sobering up both wish they had not engaged in the act? I assume that if neither has serious regrets the law won't be involved even if consent could not properly be given by the parties at the time.

If a drink driver is responsible for their choices when drunk then why is a choice to engage in sexual activity regarded so differently?

If after sobering up one has regrets and the other does not can we legitimately see the one with regrets as a victim and the other a perpetrator?

Can the law readily differentiate the nuances of these situations?

That may be the topic for another thread sometime, given how often it seems to pop up in the media and OLO discussions I'd like to get an understanding of it that I'm more confident in.

R0bert

Hey Fractelle, I’m going to be 42 in October. Hubby is nearly exactly one year younger. Had a new acquaintance fess up a little while ago (and I’ve heard this repeatedly through the years) that they were scared of me for a long time. Always a surprise, I care for small children, I see myself as kinda woosey at times and would rather suck it up than intentionally hurt someone else’s feelings.

On the other hand, I am known to be very clear and very loud when facing something like an obvious insult. Note the “obvious” part as I am awful at subtlety. A friend, who owns a massage parlor, set me up once; I went up to see him at his business and the man on reception asks my name then starts calling out “the new girl is here!” The girls rushed out to welcome me saying “the next client is all yours” – I was at full red faced stutter.

I can see what Yabby thinks is funny. He says stuff to wind people up and I’ve had a few flatmates in my past like that. Never worried me if spouting off to each other but if there was a younger female present I’d step in. Haven’t seen them all in 20 years but I am guessing some are just the same as they always were and truly think they are just so amusing.

Seeker I really don’t see a baby in the picture, but I plan to ask all visitors in my house from now on what they see.

That was a lovely song and a stunning chick singing it too, thank goodness she went in to singing and didn’t decide to use her good looks for other stuff.[smile]

R0bert you ever done the “walk of shame” like early Saturday or Sunday morning? You wake up and think “aarrgghhh!” sometimes this slips out and becomes audible, you exit the premises desperately trying to work out where you are and even which town you’re in.

What happened the night before; don’t go there. EVER!