*We have a HUGE family here on great expanses on land; we'll all welcome ya!*

I'm told that the tv reception is not the best out there, so
they just do what the rabbits out there do too :)

TPP, "If they want kids they can lend a hand and bloody foster them or adopt one from a country with spares"

Why should women be aborting children at home because we don't have housing but we are bringing record numbers of migrants in to be housed by the taxpayer?

Some of those taxpayere are the young people who want children but cannot have them, or at least will not be able to afford the children they want through high taxes and high prices of housing. How do they feel paying higher taxes for infrastructure, homes and support for the excess population of other countries while being told to cross their own legs and abort their own children?

Shouldn't charity begin at home?

However you are right, there is a lot of 'I want' and 'me first' in the world. Hope that feeling passes, finding it difficult to find peace tonight? Let it go it will all be there tomorrow. Hold on, those of us with children know that some things cannot be put off or avoided and there is always more tomorrow. Hot cup of tea, comfort food and act deaf for a while ;-)

Nice try Yabby; you'll have to do better than that old chestnut to make your mark.
Better luck next time.

Cornflower I agree with every thing you have said but its of subject lets talk about it in a thread.
Julie, yep your anger about poor parenting is quite right of subject but right however do not put all of us in the useless parents bin.
I rared 10 kids 5 siblings 5 of my sisters love kids.
from a large family I can let you into a family secrete, we have a unique call, if you listen early mornings outside the smallest room in the house you will hear it.
Any one in there?
Now can I remark on the threads getting lost?
Banjo only looked for solutions.
Well Master dreamed a dream about world cooperation to house refugees but it is only a dream.
We come surely some one can see , must address birth control, bad governments, war's ,famine, and under stand without that the problem will never go away.

Master, I was going to continue progressively addressing your comments, but I don’t think there is any point. I’ll just make some general comments instead.

I thought earlier that you had a basic understanding of sustainability and the necessary balance between humans and their life-supporting and quality-of-life supporting systems. But I didn’t see any indication of this in your four long posts of 17&18 July.

Sure, migrants add to the economy as they have always done in Australia. But this doesn’t mean that they would contribute to per-capita economic growth or average improvements in quality of life for established citizens. And they wouldn’t contribute to a sustainable future, in countries with already badly overexploited basic resources.

Your whole tenet is that many countries should take many more refugees in order to share the load and that this is the answer to the global refugee issue. But you seem to be entirely missing the promotion of any proactive activity on refugees.

What about efforts to address the causes of refugeeism? What about a greatly increased international aid effort from the countries that can afford it? What about first-world countries spending their money helping refugees in their homelands, which is something like a hundred times more efficient than to accommodate them in Australia, USA or UK?

What about my basic tenet that sustainability has to come first? We need to make sure that our society is sustainable and healthy, otherwise we’ll fracture if not collapse completely, and won’t be in any position to help the more needy. In fact, if that happens, a lot of us will become refugees. Same with other first-world countries.

Sustainability first. Reduce immigration to net zero and head directly towards a stable population.

Even though Australia currently takes more refugees than any other country on a per-capita basis compared to the resident population, we can more than double that intake within a net zero immigration program.

We CAN have a much bigger refugee intake (up to ~25 000pa), and play a much bigger part in international aid programs, and direct ourselves towards a sustainable future.

Ludwig: << I don’t agree with everything that Belly, Banjo or Cornflower write, and I don’t share the strong end of their views. I’ve expressed my differences with Belly and Banjo, if not Cornflower as well on different matters. >>

You haven't on this thread, for example where Banjo wants to ban refugees from entire cultural blocs because of the behaviour of a few lawbreakers, or where Cornflower deliberately misrepresents asylum seekers as illegal immigrants, or when dear old Belly exaggerates the numbers of potential 'boat people' from 10,000 to 1,000,000. That, combined with your reference to potential social unrest (caused by the actions of a bigoted minority in Australia) lends support to Master's characterisation of you.

Again, this is why I don't get involved in sustainable population groups and why serious political parties (including the Greens) don't have detailed population policies. They always get hijacked by racists and xenophobes, to whom environmentalists concerned about population invariably acquiesce, despite the hateful misinformation spread by the bigots with whom they ally themselves.

<< We CAN have a much bigger refugee intake (up to ~25 000pa), and play a much bigger part in international aid programs, and direct ourselves towards a sustainable future. >>

Agreed on all of that, but where we differ is your insistence that we need to incarcerate onshore asylum seekers while the big picture stuff is yet to happen.

<< I lay on the beach on Balding Bay, Magnetic Island last weekend, Pallarenda Beach yesterday and Bushland Beach today. Divine! >>

Ah yes, I remember Balding Bay well... spent a winter living on the Esplanade at Pallarenda once. It got up to 14C here on Saturday, but sunny and wind-free, so I took the boat out fishing. Delightful, but no fish and my lower legs are still numb from launching the boat.