CJ, rather than comment on your interpretation of what Banjo, Belly or Cornflower have said, and rather than me trawl back through this very long thread in search of their posts, can I ask you to do the leg work and provide direct quotes or direct me to the appropriate posts for the issues that you would like me to address. Thanks.

“…this is why I don't get involved in sustainable population groups…. They always get hijacked by racists and xenophobes…”

Really? Because of the possibility of a few people with stronger views than yours you won’t get involved! Are you sure it isn’t because you aren’t really that interested in population stabilisation and sustainability? I mean, why would you let anyone intimidate you out of being involved with something that you think you should be involved with and apparently would be if they weren’t involved? Sounds fishy to me, especially for someone such as you who has an excellent ability to assert yourself and to express what it is that you agree and don’t agree with.

I spent a wonderful day on Magnetic Island yesterday. A great combination of beach-bumming, exercise – running across the island barefoot with a heavy backpack, botanising, photography…and just a wee bit of perving on bikini-clad babes! { :>)

“Why should women be aborting children at home because we don't have housing but we are bringing record numbers of migrants in to be housed by the taxpayer?”

That’s weird, cause if you decide for whatever reason that you can’t have kids then there are things to prevent the pregnancy. But I get the taxpayers paying for others when they don’t benefit themselves… Your benefits seem pretty generous so I think anyone wanting a child can afford one in Aussie.

Do you mean the people who make sensible family planning decisions who wouldn’t have a kid until they knew they could afford it? Weird aye, those are the type of people we want to have children.

Do you think this is really happening now and because of refugees?

Yes charity should begin at home. Thank you for the nice words Cornflower. I’d just been ripped to shreds on another site and been told I am a DoCS spy trying to lure parents into making stupid statements to prove they’re all loopy. They don’t believe I want to help anyone and that I chose my pied piper name because I am a psychopathic pedophile who only fosters because I never loved my own children and see all children as anyone else would see a pet. I read that and promptly burst in to tears. Then I immediately freaked out at my own reaction which was pretty stupid but I was probably feeling a bit anti parents in general last night.

Beaches, Babes and Botany Luddy? I swear I am going green. Hey I was completely intimidated last night by two people in to leaving a site I thought I should be involved with, it happens.

I must be over it now cause Yabby just made me giggle.

Sorry Belly, I was being unfair about parents. Belly do you want any immigrants/refugees to come or did you have a number and time period in mind?

TPP, "Do you think this is really happening now and because of refugees?

No that is not what I am saying. There is a cargo cult mentality abroad in this thread where some think that taxpayers wallets and Australia's resources and infrastructure are limitless (if only technology can keep coming up with surprise solutions!).

I am merely pointing out the obvious, which is that the cracks have been showing for a long, long time through such things as increased taxes, high property prices and lowered fertility (linked to affordability, high taxes and so on) and continuing record levels of immigration have risks and consequences. That and when will politicians explain to the individual Australia just what in specific, practical terms what s/he gains from high immigration numbers?

The people of South East Queensland for example, have had to pony up for an expensive desalination plant and water recycling resulting in grossly increased water rates and permanent water restrictions. The seasons haven't changed, there was always regular drought, but the population influx was/is unsupportable. Similarly the region has lost and continues to lose valuable salt water marshes and market garden land for housing estates. Is this the agricultural 'sustainability' some speak of on OLO?

It is one thing to wear one's heart on one's sleeve for the unregulated influx of people but there are practical considerations, such as Australia having very real water supply problems.

C J Morgan
More of your usual negative labelling of your opponents to try to diminish their credibility and so detract from their arguments.

You knobble your own credibility not theirs.

We now have Antonios suggesting we do a land grab from farmers to accommodate a burgeoning increase in immigrants. Next, I suspect he’ll suggest extinguishing native title to squeeze a few million more in the country side. After all, there’s only a few Aboriginals – about a million? These people are the stewards of Australian lands but why shouldn’t these millions of hectares be developed into an environmental, urbanised nightmare?

Perhaps I should warn him not to come West because state governments have been resuming or buying up pastoral lands for conservation – filthy conservationists! Despicable earthlovers!

Then we have that rotten Bob Carr who increased NSW’s national parks and reserves – 350 new parks – a fifty percent increase! Some hide he had! Just imagine how many humans could have lived there?

And private conservation organisations buying and managing wildlife habitats? Could this be a crime against humanity? Why don't we slaughter the wildlife to accommodate humans? With the donations from philanthropic sources, the not-for-profit, AWC already owns 2.152 million hectares with sanctuaries that protect over 100 threatened ecosystems and 170 threatened wildlife species. What a disgrace!

But fear not my dear Antonios, because as is customary for new Orstrayluns, they all demand to live in Sydney, Melbourne, Perth etc – hence the supply, demand and outrageous prices for real estate but at least the NSW government suggests that supplying one hectare per 15 families is “viable.”

Therefore, Antonios, cancel your dreams of Sydney or the bush. The only available accommodation for these city slickers will be to go “upwards.” Like it or lump Antonios.

Like the ghettos in first world countries - London and the garbage filled streets of New York City, poverty, crime and human decay, the American way is not too far off, when Master’s 6.5 million additional Australians can have their own turf warfare in slummy urbansville - regions where people from different backgrounds never meet and never go into each others homes.

Manhattan, the Bronx, Brooklyn – you ain’t seen nuffin’ yet!

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=402544

Cornflower
"what in specific, practical terms what (Australia)s/he gains from high immigration numbers?"
1. More population means bigger internal market. Small to medium size businesses can not savy in a country with small population. More population means bigger probability for our small business to savy, simultaneously we need a bigger variaty of industries.
2. Migrants are not only consumers but they are producers too, they are creators too, they bring new ideas.
For their businesses they need raw materials, tools, employees or new markets.They become good customers or supplyers to local industry.
3. They improve Australian's relations with their countries, promote and assist to export our products in their countries, as our relation with the other countries imporoved, in the same degree improved our ability to export our products in these countries. As you know of cause the automation and high productivity, of cause the high costs of the machinery etc many companies can not savy without the foreign markets, without exports, migrants improve our abilities to export our products.
4. Migrants give more and cheaper working hands which our industries need, which our business need and they save for us from big costs. Can you estimate how much cost a child from his birth until to be ready for work, hundrends of thousand of dollars, with migrants we avoid all these expences, all these huge expences!
5. With the decline in births migrants become the main sourse to increase our population or in worst case to keep it steady (fixed) with life extension the part of our aged population become bigger and bigger, the costs from our aged population become bigger, who will work for them? we need more populalation to share the costs, to share the weigts, to keep our ability to support our aged population.
6. More population means better defence system, means more power to defent our country, means Australia wil not be an easy, a soft target, it means we avoid bad stories from idiots who want to invade in our country and steal our wealth.

Antonios Symeonakis
Adelaide

Master: “We have a HUGE family here on great expanses on land; we'll all welcome ya!”

Yabby: “I'm told that the tv reception is not the best out there, so they just do what the rabbits out there do too :) “

Mmmmhuwa hahahaha

Yeep. Them thar desert-living country hicks seems to huv nuthin betta ta doo than doo it like they doo it on the deyiscovery chayannel. But coz the tee vee recepshuns no good they is not gunna know wot I mean.

So check out wot this rabbit does, bumpkins, if you dare…..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9_LSMTTNc4

.
I full agree Cornflower.

Well said Protagoras.