Comment 2

Comment 2 extends arguments from comments 1; relating to the impact of government policy leading to industry exploitation on Australians. It questions the arrogance of government to expect its citizens to accept this.
The issue of foreign students employment alleged as taking work from Australian unemployed, is serious, but is just a minor part of the problems.
Furthermore is the issue of their conditions of employment and how thoroughly are they monitored.
Are they less than expected of Australians? If we accept the allegations of some students of wages earned, and then it is little wonder industry cannot expect Australians to work.
Under a sound Industrial Relations system these would be illegal.
However, the changes to Industrial relations law and practice introduced by the previous government enables unscrupulous employers to get away with it. We have yet to see how the Labor Government changes will work.
Having worked in Industrial Relations I can see the impact these changes are having on Australia.
There are many issues requiring to be addressed if Australia is to regain a reputation as the clever country. In the eyes of the world it cannot be considered that and perhaps is now judged as a gullible country.

When governments support bringing skilled trades’ people and professionals from overseas on the pretext of a skill labour shortage, which they and industry caused.

Another issue involves older workers. Research seems to indicate they must work much harder to prove he/she is still viable to employ. The productivity of younger people is excused because they are inexperienced, therefore, can be employed at a lower wage.

Had Government and industry continued to invest in education and training now instead of later, it would have a pool of skilled people in trades people and professionals. The longer this is left the worse the situation becomes.
Government PR machines claim it is spending huge amounts bringing our systems up to date. The present level spending will only replace the damage done by previous governments when policy dismantled much of the education and health system.
regards
professori_au

Pericles
I like your jokes ! You do not care if 500000 foreign students work for $8 or $9 per hour or less. You are employer and you like cheap wages!
The question is what hapen with our labours who have to work for very low wages if they want to keep their job, how they can cover their basic expences, how they can care their children, what kind of care , how they can pay the rent or home mortgage, try to imagine their stress, to imagine their little children when they see their parents under these conditions. Soon or later our labors will lose their job, soon or later foreign students will grab the job from our people, they work for nothing!
Then Pericles we, the taxpeyers have to pay for our unemployees, for their rent etc. Can you estimate how much money we have to pay AND WE PAY for 500000 unemployees + for their children, rent assist etc?
foreign students cost millions of millions of dollars to Australian taxpeyers and create many and huge other problems for which we will pay in the future!
Do you know pericle? "some three-bedroom apartments can house 10 students, each paying $150 a week." That means they pay for a three-bedroom apartments $1500!
http://www.thecourier.com.au/news/national/national/general/overseas-students-abused-by-bosses-landlords-union/1492827.aspx

That means Pericle the rents touched the sky! We have to work for the landlords! That means the quality of our life, the quality of our children life is very bad, with very negative consequences for the future of our country, THAT MEANS AUSTRALIAN TAXPEYER'S MONEY FOR RENT ASSIST TO UNEMPLOYEES, STUDENTS, RETIRED PEOPLE ETC WILL TOUCH THE SKY TOO!
Pericle I am afraid you programed your eyes to see ONLY what you want to see, and you see the profits from the businesses and you do not see and do not care at all for the cost to our low income employees and their families and you do not see the huge costs for Australian taxpeyrs.

professor-au, THANK YOU!

Antonios Symeonakis
Adelaide

Thank you, Antonios.

>>Pericles I like your jokes!<<

As your example clearly demonstrates, there are Australian employers who exploit the students as slave labour.

But as the article also clearly states, this is illegal

Nor is it a good idea for Australian businesspeople to entice foreign students here under essentially false pretences, as your example also shows.

But as the article also clearly indicates, this is thoroughly irresponsible, should be exposed and eliminated.

I don't think it is a very convincing argument to use illegal acts and dodgy practices as the justification for booting out all foreign students.

You paint a very emotional picture, by the way, of the poor starving children, whose livelihood has been snatched away by the hordes of rapacious students...

>>...how they can cover their basic expences, how they can care their children, what kind of care , how they can pay the rent or home mortgage, try to imagine their stress, to imagine their little children when they see their parents under these conditions.<<

...but I think you will find that the students are doing what all kids at that age do, sweeping out the kitchens at Red Rooster, or filling supermarket shelves at 2 in the morning. I doubt that there is a great deal of possible substitution going on.

But if you have some real-life examples, by all means share.

>>You are employer and you like cheap wages!<<

Not at all, Antonios. My people are paid very well for what they do, and as a result I get exceptional work from them.

>>Pericle I am afraid you programed your eyes to see ONLY what you want to see, and you see the profits from the businesses and you do not see and do not care at all for the cost to our low income employees and their families<<

On the contrary, I do care a great deal. However, I also make sure that I deal wherever possible in facts, rather than emotional observations about stressed kiddies.

I'm surprised you didn't mention their becoming orphans, due to the horrendous conditions in the workhouse.

Hi All,

I am not an advocate for cheap wages, foreign students or Australians.
One area I have had experience is investigating wage complaints.
People are funny "critters".
A problems faced by government and that resulted in officers only being allowed to investigate a complaint when the client asked for the investigation, Then the investigation only related to that specific complaint and not any of the others, even when we knew it extended to others, unless the department was carrying out an investigative raid.
The reason? If you were to investigate, despite the fact that all may be paid low wages, and they lost their job they would complain to the department, hence the directive only to investigate a complaint on the client's request. Besides that, the department was usually understaffed to be able to investigate all cases of companies breaching wage compliance regulations. Subsequently we patched the holes and not the problem.
An employer most of my life, I believe that a fair day's work receive a fair day's pay. Respecting your employees, you will receive respect and in addition, receive loyalty.
Today, career paths seldom exist, or are limited for most employees. Receiving no loyalty from many employers, so how can a business expect loyalty in return?
One employer’s philosophy was that if he did not “kick their A…” the employees knew they were ok. I said that I had seen his face light up when he was praised him for a good job; surely, it would be reasonable for his employees to expect the same and receive credit as well as criticism. He could not accept that. Unfortunately, there exist some employers with a mindset that treats employees as no more than equipment. “They should be grateful they have a job”. If they did not like then leave, there were plenty of others waiting to take their place.
Social justice moves slowly, because of differing attitudes/mindsets of different employers. In addition, directives from head offices of overseas companies influence some attitudes. The “bean counter bottom line is all that counts in a highly competitive world.
Regards
Professori_au

Pericles
"this is illegal" Welcome Pericles to our planet!
The law is good for the rich people not for employees! The law is good for the people who can claim it, not for employees! If the cost for an employee is much higher by claiming his/her rights then simple they shut up their mouth! Do not you know it Pericles?
If an employee is pushed at the corner and he is in difficult financial condisions, as usualy for low income employees, THE LAW IS TOTALY USELESS. Print it on a nice paper and hung it on the wall!
One year before I asked the real estate agent to fix the water of the units I rented. She did not do anything I asked her second time and instead to fix it she said me in writing to leave the unit because I breached the contract! She wrote that I did not pay for 4 weeks the rent! I was paying direct from the bank, I had the statements that they took the money.
They pressed me with this cheap dirty way because they did not like to spent some money to fix the water!I was there more than 7 years! No repairs no maintenance! At the end they said me that I did not pay to them $10. When I left the unit they gave me a cheque of $10, they was wrong! I have all the evidents in my hands. Do you think it is easy for me to change place? What if these irisponsible people report me tho landlord's association? They could block me to find an other unit/house.
The law and justice system is a much bigger JOKE than your little jokes!
If I find my right in the court but I lose my job and I can not find an other one, my claim for my rights could be a disaster for me!
We need the UNIONS!
OUR LABOURS ARE IN VERY DIFFICULT POSITION OF CAUSE THE FINANCIAL CRISIS, FOREIGN STUDENT'S RIGHT TO WORK IS A DISASTER FOR OUR LOW INCOME EMPLOYEES!

Antonios Symeonakis
Adelaide

ASymeonakis

RE: Tenancy

Sorry to hear of your experience and generally I would agree it is difficult for those on low income.
That is why I work as a volunteer community advocate since my retirement.

However, to the point.
In Victoria, if you have a tenancy problem you can apply to have it redressed through VCAT and the Tenants Union.
I would have thought that you would have that option in SA. Did you claim you bond back? You would have been entitled to do that unless you had damaged the property in some way. This is where the Tenants Union should be able to help.
Regards
professori_au