Max, statistics (at least of the descriptive kind) are just raw numbers organised so that the raw data they describe can be made sense of. What do you mean when you refer to "the real numbers", if that's not what you're after?

Like Banjo, it seems to me that you're speaking from ignorance, without any genuine desire to ascertain the facts about overseas students in Australia. In which case, as you say, we have nothing further to discuss.

Good Afternoon Folks,

There's no denying the fact that the international
student 'business,' is a very lucrative one for
Australia. I scrawled several websites - and was
truly suprised at the figures given - $15.5 billion
seems to be the most popular one - which is a heck
of a lot which ever way you slice it. And in addition
I was equally surprised to learn that there are also
about 130,000 Chinese students studying in this country.

The fact that problems exist however, can no longer be
swept under the rug. I read that in Victoria there's
going to be a Senate inquiry into the matter. Which
is a positive step. Another positive step in Victoria
is the increase of police in the Western suburbs - like
St. Albans, Sunshine, and so on. Extra policing is a
good deterrant.

Something obviously had to be done. We've always had an
excellent reputation as a safe country in which to live.
We need to find out exactly where the problems lie with
what's been happening lately, and what to do about it.

Things obviously can't continue to be ignored.

Statistics aside, there is no doubt there is much business being whipped up via foreign students and not all of it kosher.

The smaller business/trade colleges have been in the news a number of times over fraudulent activity. International students have become fodder for the greedy and amoral. This article is just one on this topic.

http://in.news.yahoo.com/137/20090612/738/tnl-australia-s-overseas-students-face-r.html

Australia would be better off setting up campuses offshore in partnership with foreign governments. Courses could be conducted in the relevant language making it easier for students to understand the coursework. This would have the effect of making study more relevant and inject qualified and trained professionals into those economies that need them the most.

A relative who works in a well known university is becoming sick and tired of the pressure to pass international students who do not speak enough English to be able to understand the course content let alone be able to write a paper or to sit exams with equal confidence of an English speaking student.

Education has become a business, it is no longer seen as an investment in the future. Under Howard, Universities became production lines with little spent on research functions.

At least under the current government and in the recent budget more money is being again invested in the research arm of the tertiary sector.

http://www.universitiesaustralia.edu.au/content.asp?page=/news/media_releases/2009/uniaus_media_05_09.htm

With respect, Foxy, I suspect your figures may be a little out.
I seem to recall (and, I cannot grab the source at the moment) that the number of Chinese students (i.e. students from Mainland China, as opposed to Chinese from Malaysia ,Singapore etc) are greater than the number of Indian students.

And, as that inquiry we had to have:
“The fact that problems exist however, can no longer be
swept under the rug. I read that in Victoria there's
going to be a Senate inquiry into the matter…”
This is likely to be more about autopsying the incidents of violence than anything else. And if the past is any thing to go by, its findings, will be a newspeak pronouncement about the dire need for more policing and, even more dire need to EDUCATE the Australian community about TOLERANCE.

CJ, I couldn’t let that pass, so I’ll make this simple for you.
The raw numbers would be the totals of students, in recognized or business model Uni’s, and the number who use that status and qualification to stay here. The actual, real, numbers.
Statistics involves sampling, and re-arranging the raw data into convenient mathematical expressions, changing it via various formulae. This enables the manipulation and hiding of the reality, and hence the old saying.
Look at the un-employment figures, they don’t dare allow anyone to collate the actual numbers, they use statistical analysis, sampling odd streets and suburbs in a few cities and towns, and then the games begin. This has been the modus operandi of Governments of all ilks for years now, pretty much since computers allowed it. Whatever “stats” are available are inherently unreliable, it’s the nature of the beast, unless you believe our Gov’ and PS are totally incorruptible and openly honest at all times.
PLUS, how dare you accuse me of ignorance for asking questions, what sort of elitist are you?
Other than disagree with you as to the validity of statistics, that’s all I’ve done, and admitted I did not know the actual numbers involved.
Is it considered ignorant merely to disagree with you? Are you that arrogant?

Reasonable questions Banjo. People should take the time to ask and understand.

<<It is said that there are some 500,000 foreign students here and that the estimated income from their being here ranges fromm $12.5 Billion to $16 Billion per year.>> This is probably correct.

<<Firstly the number is high>>

Is it? How do you know?

<<and one asks how many students can our universities accomodate and how many places are still available for our own students. Are our own students losing out?>>

Not likely, foreign students are full-fee paying and universities actually increase the number of places to accommodate them. Many university courses are actually under quota for Australian-born students.

<<Were not our Unis built with taxpayers funds and specificly to benefit Aussie students. >>

Yes, and it benefits them a lot to be exposed to new ideas, cultures and people. Higher Education especially benefits from strong links to international students and other universities.

<<So who and when was the decission made to turn our Unis into revenue gathering centres?>>

It happened many years ago, I think it was around the time that HECS was instituted and universities were begun to be run a business model and administration was put into the hands of business managers and out of academics.

(cont'd)