To all contibutors: Please note that I am the original "Cuphandle" but have had to change my nickname to "Crackup" due to change of server ( from Dial-up to Sat LAN )

With all the furore that is currently occurring in both Australia and Britain over MP`s alleged misuse of allowances etc...a subject that should be of the utmost concern to each and every citizen of both countries,...the question should be asked that if our politicians cannot act responsibly by "taking" from the public purse only what is legally and morally justifiable, then what example do they set for the rest of the country.

This subject once again brings to light the transparency of our Democracy whereby elected Politicians HAVE to give their first allegiance to the Party machine and it`s policies, regardless of the wishes of the members of their electorate who were actually responsible for them getting them elected.

Once again we witness the the ongoing self-indulgence of a group of people who are obviously a law unto themselves. It is now time that all the constraints applied to the average man in the street be applied to this group of alleged miscreants, with the appropriate penalties and punishment being applied for any infringement, instead of simple Party Room censure!

an interesting topic..cuphandle[sorry/cracked me up the imagry of the change]..often wish i had chosen another handle...but back to the topic

we have a demonic-autocracy.[demockery for short]the..-crasy allways looked like crazy..but such is the nature of the beast..serving..lol..the public ser-vice..with a two party machine they rule us by

govt has allways served the elite,..to expect any different..[from the same 2-party machinations..would be truelly absurd,and frankly most sheeple got no idea,..of what good governance would look like

the meaning and intent/behind formulating the constitution was to limit govt/powers..[govt cannot take power of atourney/from the people[abouve and beyond the power/..the people have to give]yet clearly has

no individual can..punitivly-criminalise any other for simple drug use or possesion..[for egsample]..govt forms/acts..that give licence to business..so buisness has rules to contole its worser elements[..but business has absorbed the rights of a person..[and personhood has become servitude/by peons serving the state

we have the absurd selling-off of govt/'trusts'..[water/power/teliphone/mail etc..to big businnes..[for proffit]..and govt servants not only gave up/these peoples instruments..[they managed to steal the proceeds..to secure their own..overgenerous pensions..safely bankled into a private/trust-account for public servants..lol

we see the wholesale oppression..of the public..to pay income tax on wage..[income-tax is not wage-tax]..but no public/schooling is going to reveal the truth..[nor will media]..

while the multi-natial's get to avoid paying tax on income..[plus getting huge/bonus/coorperate-welfare..in lue of wages..they should be paying tax on..[and dont]..but use fancy instruments that should be taxed as income..[but which arnt..[its all backwards]..but such is why our public/servants..chose lawyers..to run for the party..via the 2 party machine

even the..'greens'..is run by public/servants..[but such is demon-autocracy]..no one is going to tell people..that simply by regestering to vote..[they accord power/of atourney to the state

[and legally..give up freeborn/rights..to become wards of the state[legal-name..=..imbisiles;..in-capable of handeling our own affairs]..

but it dont stop there in this demon-autocracy..by applying to vote[or by regestering..your..'vehicle'..[or applying to register a birth[in fact..when we register ANYTHING..[we sign away our rights]

by applying..[apply means beg,..we asume the rights of a begger[..ie of no legal standing..[that innocent govt form[we signed]..becomes an inforcable contract..[and all govt oppressions are via the law of contract,

anything we sign,..becomes a contract..ie voids the real/legal need of a victim..no victim..no crime..state cannot be a victim..[read the magna-carta/charter..no-one may plead self guilt..[ALL evidence must be heard by a jury..[and at least two/witnesses MUSt testify a personal witness of injury]

but public/servants have subverted our rights..via con-tracts..[they call them forms]..once you filled in the form,...you lost your rights..such..clever little/demons..are running the autocracy..jesus said let your yes be yes..ie[dont take oath],but,yet the peons sign oath on forms...lol..why wont someone..explain..it to em

How do Cups!

It's funny, I was thinking about this this morning. About what exactly we can do. Because unless we act together, we will get nowhere.

And of course that will never happen. Society today acts individually. People today look out for themselves and don't give a damn for others. Some do; most don't.

The Howard Government took full advantage of this principle:-divide and rule-, with individual workplace agreements.

We have TV programmes where contestants are encouraged to turn on those they see as a threat to them. It is todays operating system.

Until we act together,-nothing will change;-it will get worse.

In the UK. they have turned on their politicians bigtime, with demonstrations/letters to papers/talkback/ TV/ and the internet.

Brown knows he is in deep trouble.

This is where 'whinging Pom' has born fruit!!

It's just a club - a rorted system where Party A and Party B take turns in implementing similar policies.

No matter where you cast your vote, A or B will ultimately be in control and that's the limit of our democratic vote.

Although they argue about the detail and appear to vigorously oppose each other they both "eat from the same plate".

I think cuphandle its in every part of life now.
That greed drove us into this world wide crisis.
It may take as many years as you and I have lived to return to times as good as the last twenty years.
But until every one is made accountable for their actions we will see much more of this.
sorry you had to change your handle but we know who you are.
I constantly question some in my party who would dispose of their mother for a few bucks

It might be just a "club for the boys", but why do we go on year after year, decade after decade, allowing these self-serving financial opportunists the right to continue bringing down unjust laws and implementing legislation that in real terms does very little to ensure a sound and prosperous future for ALL the citizens of our country.

This has gone on for too long,... the well-worn pattern of the rich and the well-placed getting themselves elected to Government simply by kow-towwing to the right people in the right place at the right time, and then continuing the travesty by pledging their loyalty to that particular power group to ensure the passage of "unsavoury" legislation which invariably favours the well-being and financial prosperity of certain "privelaged groups"!

How many times have we seen politicians retire from Parliament and be rewarded for their "service to the boys club" with a very lucrative appointment to a company board, or to an overseas representational position with a very lucrative financial Salary and Allowances, all on top of an already massive Parliamentary Superannuation Pension, which is tax-free and is NOT subject to the same laws that are applied to the rest of the community!

This engrained protectionism can only be prevented from continuing by the many millions of voters standing up and demanding honesty and integrity from their many, many overpaid and underworked political representatives and the urgent implementation of an independent body to carefully scrutinize ALL financial remunerations and appointments in all areas where the Public Purse is at risk. ....It has been proved conclusively that SOME Politicians cannot be trusted to voluntarily do what is right by the people!

Where is democracy? I will tell you where is democracy but you can see it ONLY with closed eyes!
Democracy is in our homes. Mary a coffee, George bring my food, Helen my newspaper!
Democracy is in workplaces! Today workers elected (what?) ... today ... I AM VERY SORRY BUT I CAN NOT IMAGINE DEMOCRACY IN WORKPLACES! BAD STORY!
Democracy is in political Parties! A small minority of party officials elected the new president of the party! Not from members, not from voters, not from supporters.
Democracy is the mass media, the following TWO editors create the public opinion in Australia. They are the real boses from Australian democracy.
Democracy is in the churches, accordind to the church leader and God's representative on the Earth, women are good for the... bed not for priests!
Democracy is .. NO WHERE, YES THERE IS NOT DEMOCRACY!
Antonios Symeonakis
Adelaide

"Down with them all" I say "down with them all"

Recently wide spread people power purged several Brisbane bayside councils of developer's stooges. Yah!
Now the bad news a number of these purged groups now have state elected representatives. Albeit by 30 votes for one!

It seems to me that people focus on groups but individuals (which comprise) these odious groups get elected because they now represent a party. Personally if an individual's morality and sense of public service stunk in one group then they will still stink in another group (excrement by any name still stinks).

Not surprisingly the new council of 'angels' are now sidling up to the trough for their luxuriating bathes.

The most reasonable conclusions I can come up with are

- that people have very limited memories and for interest in issues removed from either their emotions or immediate involvement.

-the fault is who we get in parliaments. Consider the NSW independent who ran a 20 campaign against the political sport of trough diving and wallowing.He was virtually ignored.

If we can change a seat for a butterfly, koala land why not over political "greedship." (a political skill)

The answer both are emotional and can be seen the the wallowing it's in secret.
Like I said down with them all....and maybe me for beneficent Dictator.....pretty please with tax deductions on top.

At least these pollies can be voted out. If the godless judges receive more power through a bill of wrongs we will witness corruption like never before (only we wont be able to vote them out).

Whew, thank God for consensus. You almost all up to now agree that democracy is all but dead in Australia. Why? Because atheists and agnostics don’t understand Christianity, and I am talking Protestant Christianity, not the variety peddled by Rome, and have abolished democracy.

The unholy alliance between Roman Catholics, and agnostics and atheists abolished democracy from 1970 on in New South Wales, and gradually in all other States including Australia itself. Federal Court of Australia Act 1976 and High Court of Australia Act 1979 is when the lawyers in Parliament decided their religion, which is essentially Roman Catholic, would govern Australia.

When your right to vote, in a jury of twelve in a court, and your right to bring any Act of Parliament before Almighty God in a court, and bring it to trial without hindrance of interference by any public servant was abolished by Order 46 Rule 7A Federal Court Rules you lost democracy. Democracy was abolished in the Federal Court of Australia by s 39 Federal Court of Australia Act 1976 introduced by the Liberals, and ordinary people have no votes there.

In a democracy like the United States the right to vote in a jury is guaranteed. The right to start any court case is also guaranteed. If started a court case in the United States will be tried by a jury. In Australia it will be tried by a State Priest. We call them Judges, but they are exercising the powers of Almighty God.

I realized at law school that law had become a religion. The Pope is Justice French, and it used to be Gleeson. Both are Roman Catholic in heritage if not actually. The Labor Party in 1915, made laws to make these people accountable, and you personally really powerful, in the Crimes Act 1914 ( Cth). This guaranteed democracy, but lawyers would be accountable in a democracy. Their Temples would be demolished and courts restored, and you or I would be able, if threatened with a fine of any kind, to avoid it by appealing to twelve of our fellow voters, guaranteed

Just imagine a democracy. I was born into one, but it is Paradise lost. We have lost it because we have been complacent. We lost it in 1952, when Emperor Menzies, the Great Ming, introduced Order 58 Rule 4 subrule 3 into the High Court Rules 1952. This scurrilous and illegal piece of Liberal bastardry, has set the tone for Australian Government ever since. You be the Judge.

It says; If a writ, process, commission, petition, or application appears to a Registrar on its face to be an abuse of the process of the Court or a frivolous or vexatious proceeding or application, the Registrar must seek the direction of a Justice who may direct the Registrar to issue or file it or to refuse to issue or file it without the leave of a Justice first had and obtained by the party seeking to file it.

This means that even if you have a genuine grievance, and say that the Government has breached the Constitution, a Registrar and one Judge, can prevent you from getting a day in court. This gives Parliament and the ruling Party absolute power. Menzies was prohibited absolutely by S 77 (i) Constitution from legislating this, so he got his stooges on the High Court to change the Constitution by regulation. S 77 (i) Constitution says: Power to define jurisdiction: Parliament may make laws defining the jurisdiction of any federal court other than the High Court.

On the 1st January 1953, democracy died in Australia and the High Court became a Star Chamber. Before that it had stopped two things. It had stopped the Bank Nationalisation, that allowed Ming to win power, and it stopped Ming abolishing the Communist Party. In return Ming threatened to indict the lot of them, under S 43 Crimes Act 1914 ( Cth) unless they were good little boys, and passed the regulations he wanted. NO Judge or Magistrate in Australia has been safe ever since. When they sit without a jury they are criminals. They are completely at any government’s mercy, as Lionel Murphy found to his dismay.

At the risk of yapping my head off, I cannot help responding to the allegation we are going to get a Bill of Wrongs. We got a Bill of Rights in 1986. The International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights was enacted as Schedule 2 to the Human Rights and Equal Opportunity Commission Act 1986. Look it up you doubting Thomases. Don’t believe that Roman Catholic Lawyer Father Frank Brennan, sent out by the probably Roman Catholic Attorney General along with Mary Kostakaidis to convince us we don’t have it as Statute.

The International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights paraphrases the New Testament and all the principles set out in it are lifted from that work. That is why the atheists and agnostics and Roman Catholic Church, are denying its lawful enactment. It contradicts the teachings of the State Priests appointed by all nine de-facto Churches in Australia.

It is Commonwealth Law, so it repeals heaps of State Laws. It prohibits the Child abuse perpetrated by the Family Court. It prohibits the ordinary abuse inflicted by the Federal Court of Australia and it is a really great piece of legislation, made to extend to every country the benefits of Christianity. It clips the wings of every Premier. But because we have a Star Chamber High Court and Star Chamber Federal Court the State Priests in these Courts deny it as law.

When Ming destroyed the High Court he cut the head off democracy. This Act would control the Press. They too are in denial. It would make illegal a whole raft of legislation deigned to protect Judges and Magistrates. The only reason these clowns are still in business, is S 9.5 Director of Public Prosecutions Act 1983, which allows the Director to take over and discontinue any private prosecution. The Director of Public Prosecutions has protected numerous Judges when private prosecutions have alleged they have offended S 43 Crimes Act 1914 ( Cth) by sitting without a jury. We have a scabby and tainted democracy alright, rotten from top to bottom

Runner,
Sorry wrong again. The judges (godless or not) can only make decisions with in the framework of their authority.
Without 'independent' judges we would have NO semblance of democracy or chance for justice.
BTW. Your definition of Godless is extreme. the current High court is 'stacked' with conservative (christian) judges.
Might I point out that all theocracies government that are unduely dominated by religion are the most draconian and by comparison 'undemocratic' mob rule-ish. Consider Eire's diabolical past particularly with children.

Pete,

While I can see your point in that there is a power bottle neck which in effect puts too much power into the hand of some elites I have reservations as to the;
a. Infallibility of the "great unwashed" (forming a jury)and delivering justice or sensible (non irrational biased) deliberations.
b. Our system of capitalism(as it's practiced)encourages litigation and in many cases favours the rich to the point equity and or justice is denied.

Borrowing text or concepts from the new testament is one thing but then allowing churches of any denomination privilege in power tax etc strikes me as simply adding yet another set of perversion to equity and equitable justice for all. Rather than the concept of slaves(serfs) as put by you in previous posts.
Keep in mind I'm a humanist of sorts. While I don't believe in a supernatural being I have little objection to others having said beliefs with usual caveats that applies to any other corporation or interest group (as opposed to the atheists that want to eliminate religion, and simply put then outside government and special privilege as it tends to be abused ( 1st Lord Acton).

Let us examine some of this "unsavoury" legislation that has been passed into law by succesive governments in order to "protect" us from endangering ourselves, or to give us a "more secure" personal banking system:
The compulsory wearing of seat-belts in motor vehicles.
The mandatory wearing of crash-helmets when riding a motorcycle or a pedal powered bicycle.
The compulsory Bank Account to receive payment for work, pensions etc.
The mandatory provision of 100 points of identification to enable the opening of a Bank Account.
The provision of personal Tax File Number to a potential employer before being eligible for employment.
The removal of all automatic weapons from private ownership.
The compulsory weapons Licence to obtain or hold possession of a firearm.
The compulsory Electoral registration to vote in both State and Federal Elections.
These are just a few samples of "questionable legislation" that jump to mind and it should be remembered that there are many various other State and Local Government laws and regulations that have been implemented to "make for more efficient" management!
Whether this type of legislation is beneficial to the community in general is open to conjecture, however it is compulsory and any breach can incur a financial penalty or imprisonment.
It may be argued that some of this type of legislation is beneficial in "protecting" citizenry from self-imposed harm, which may be right, however the fact remains that it is now law, and we the people have never been consulted before the various government bodies have passed it into the Statute books!

Crackup I believe some of those laws were passed not to prevent self-imposed harm but to reduce the costs incurred (mainly hospital or disability care) by those potential accidents - costs that would be passed onto other taxpayers.

Whether the wearing of seatbelts or bicycle helmets achieves this I don't know and have not seen any stats.

In essence I agree with the premise of your argument and there could be a lot more consultation with the public on many issues including via referendums.

CU:“Let us examine some of this "unsavoury" legislation that has been passed into law by succesive governments in order to "protect" us from endangering ourselves , or to give us a "more secure" personal banking system:”

Insert: “and children”

“The compulsory wearing of seat-belts in motor vehicles.”

People were dying, this law would have been around from the beginning if cars went faster. And if they don’t die they get hurt and then all the money the smokers paid in tax fixes them. If I show my MBF card do you think they can make a law where I don’t have to pay the additional tax?

“The compulsory Bank Account to receive payment for work, pensions etc.”

Not sure why this matters? Can you explain?

"The provision of personal Tax File Number to a potential employer before being eligible for employment."

What is wrong with this?

"The removal of all automatic weapons from private ownership."

People will die, do you watch the CL channel? Another law that should have been thought of soon as they were invented.

“The compulsory Electoral registration to vote in both State and Federal Elections.”

Not me, still can’t work out the citizenship stuff. But I don’t understand forced voting. When the time comes I will feel a complete dork voting for anyone if I don’t understand what is going on and by the looks of most discussions here no one can agree what is going on anyway. But didn’t Aussie’s vote in people that would make these sorts of laws?

I suspect this is one of those messages where for me the point slid right on by, got picked up by the puppy who ran out the door with it.

I was just ordered by DoCS to put up screens on windows on the pool side of the house. I know no child is going to go out those windows, annoyed, but put them up, moved on.

Hi all.

Some worthy arguments on this thread, basically we Straylyuns are not educated from an early age about our system of government, the Constitution, legal processes and the like. Many, many Australians are still under a misapprehension that we have a constitution almost identical to the American version. (Too much USA TV content ?)

Whilst the Federation framework, which was drafted on-board MV 'Lucinda' during a trip from Brisbane to Sydney, & as such it was based upon that US model... the mechanics of it are not the same in practice, even though the courts here still make reference to US case law during matters before them.

Our two party preferred system of voting in Oz guarantees the most useless candidates with the most votes will get the guernsey - then vide the resulting High Court appointees and their consequent decisions during the Howard reign versus the Hawke/Keating reign.

Our US cousins are instructed from elementary schooling levels on their Constitutional 'rights', and until the late 1960's most schools there gave the students a set of responsibilities to go with that. With the Post-Vietnam era this has not been the case, other than in religious colleges/schools - usually with the particular 'denominational flavouring'.

If in fact our government did teach our kids about the Constitution and legal system then perhaps more of us would see the pitfalls and collectively vote in representatives who then reflect the electorates wishes - not the viewpoints of vested interests as we see in the $$$ involved in the US Presidential voting process.

For the Territorians reading this, a case in point will be the East Point Marina & Inpex proposals which will be interesting developments over the coming years, no doubt polarising many in the Darwin community.

Education is the key, and some amongst the pollies don't like it when the electorate is aware of the processes, and how their local/Federal member should be representing the people who voted them into office.

jewel<<The compulsory Bank Account..to receive payment for work, pensions etc.”Not sure why this matters?..Can you explain?>>..see that you NEED to have points..[to open an account]to get the required..'points'..you need to beg..[applie means beg]...you need to applie for the documents,..that get the points

when you apply your a servant/subject to the laws of that act you apply to fall under[are now subject to]..[begging removes our supirior standing,..after begging/applying we become subject to the laws/regulations/acts..under which the act gets its POWERS

see acts are made to contol govt act..[but by making us apply we losse our rights..[becoming subject to the act's..even the banking act,..as..we are from then on..of less 'standing'..and subject to..[undet]..the act..ie we are slaves[under the act]

<<"The provision of personal Tax File Number to a potential employer before being eligible for employment.">>..What is wrong with this is that we need to apply..[why do we need to apply?],..think about it..at school they could easilly have given us the number..[or tested us without our NEEDING to apply]

but..by aplying we lose our freeman/god given standing..[and fall under the powers of their acts

[are thus sub-serviant legally speaking..by begging[applying,..to govt]..[giving govt higher powers OVER us..[the govt moves from serving its people..to oppressing us..[under the very act limiting the power of them..[our servants]..we thus beame their servants..[them our masters]

see by applying..[we fill in their form's..[then are required to state the info true..[ie take oath]read james 5;12, mathew 5;33-37,..or againmatt 23;36-25..[it is presumed a document sworn true is true abouve and beyond what real truth 'may' be

its a con-tract..[making us legally bound to obey any govt act..[be it taking your kids or locking you up for violatiung their act

understand that..under law it is presumed we dont beg for hurtfull things..[it is presumed we know for what we beg..[so any application means the law thinks ..we THINK its an advantage..

yet its theft of our freeborn sovereign/god given rights..makes us slaves to the system..subject to any oppression..under ALL their acts

[but the advantage may be refused/thus also the obligation]..but no one tells us any of this

jewel<<“The compulsory Electoral registration to vote in both State and Federal Elections.Not me,>>you dont realise how lucky[and thus empowered you are]

<<still can’t work out the citizenship stuff.. But I don’t understand forced voting.>>..ok voting is a right right?

WRONG..see that by applying to vote...you are making a power of atourney OVER you[the vote is you nominating a lawyer, to make deecisions fopr you..[LEGALLY your now..[as regestered[by application/voter]..A WARD OF THE STATE..

letting govt tell you what you can/cant do

<<When the time comes I will feel a complete dork voting for anyone if I don’t understand what is going on>>>..no one does[but legally[by simply applying to lose rights[ie to vote in a caregiver to rule it over you]..your then legally an imbisile..[thats a legal term,..meaning incompitant to handle your own affairs..legally made a child..a ward of the state..[under their act]

<<But didn’t Aussie’s vote in people that would make these sorts of laws?>>..no we voted to give power to others to tell us what we can/cant do..surrendered our god given rights[by taking oath[begging]

<<I was just ordered by DoCS>>>see ORDED not advised [as anb equal, but ORDED AS LIKE A MASTER ORDERS A SLAVE

WHY THIS IS IS BECAUSE you APPLIED TO FALL UNDER THE POWERS OF THE ACT[,be carfull for what you beg..lol...[you just might get it]..and it mightent/wont..be as much as you had..pre begging

see that they cant order me[because i didnt beg..[apply]..to fall under their act..underr their power..[but you did]

Oh OUG – is this like the rule in America where they can’t complain because if they receive money due to an act some judge said they can’t then turn around and complain about the act or amendment?

The “points” – this is semantics yes? In NZ you need three forms of ID – here they give each form a point rating but it is the same thing yeah?

Are you saying that in the applying we have made an agreement in law?
Tax number: But if your employer has agreed to only employ people with a tax number then they have to enforce their agreement. Has any employee stood their ground (under God) and said no? They would be stopped having a business wouldn’t they?

Are their examples of people who have rejected this system with numbers and accounts?

So here you are forced to vote even if you reject all parties/people on the form? Is there a space where you can tick you don’t like any of them?

Hey – awhile ago I signed a document saying I would abide by certain rules with the department I volunteer for, before signing it I noticed it was wrong, not my name on the top but someone else’s and I never said anything.

Am I bound to what I signed?

I am still waiting for a call to arrange a meeting that the O’s office ordered, I was told I would look insane if I dropped the complaint. What appears insane to me is going through this farce. And I will remember your advice and refuse to understand all of it.

Sorry OUG – you do seem to be the person I am always asking for answers from.

once a complaint is filed its best to see it through..[best to listen to what they say..[and tape it]..get their side..[reveal your reasonable but determined to fullfill your duty..[for the kids sake]

jewel<<..receive money due to an act/they can’t then turn around and complain about the act or amendment?>>yes if you recieve the advantage[you must bear its disadvantage]..its a law maxim

<<they give each form a point rating but it is the same thing>>.. yeah

<<Are you saying that in the applying we have made an agreement in law?>>..im not but legally speaking the court will

<<if your employer has agreed..they have to enforce their agreement.>>its more clever than that its implied..[public servants are allowed to lie to us..[howhard passed it into fed/legislation]

<<Has any employee stood their ground and said no?>>..yes..but employers cant afford to play politics..[so rather than risk it they just play the game

[lawyers are in on the con..[their lawyers..[or tax agants[or govt employers will say its the law][and it is if you filled in the form[ie joined their club]..ie signed a contract..[its catch twenty two]...the form you signed..said you would..[thus you must]

people now have to fill in so many forms..[like to work with kids is a form..[or contract into the building trade..[fill in the form,..govt servants have lied to get it to this stage..[but they do have our signed forms...lol

without the form..yes..<<They would be stopped having a business wouldn’t they?>>

<<Are their examples of people who have rejected this system with numbers and accounts?>>..yes they write contracts themselves..[then get paid in gold[or cash/fiat money, but no checks..[they cash in their investment/gold/barter/goods/labour..and when they need to..

,,So here you are forced to vote..no i dont vote..[because i didnt register to vote..[as far as they know i dont egsist,thus they only have force over me...[but no contract]

<<reject all parties/people on the form?..tick you don’t like any of them?..>>y..ou can vote informal..[last time i voted i simple took the voter form home with me,..after that i didnt re register

<<..it was wrong,..not my name on the top but/someone else’s>>..if the person is certain..its valid..

your name would have been at the bottom..[interesting point though...[the gov generals sign the legislation..[on behalf of the queen at the top]..the queen dont sign nuthin

there are many ways to sign yet not sign..[a signature in a box,..isnt really signing..[the box sepperated the oath from the contract..[see juries/witness sit in boxes]..because legally..in the box..is invisable..lol..

the best way to sign is..as agent..[for your self]..ie me=[signature]..as agent for NAME..without-[sans-understanding

the judge sits on a bench that has legal meaning..allowing him to create bonds/orders..bills[think in resterant you give the order and get to pay a bill;money]..[entering the court is the same as boarding a ship]..the judge has the rights of captain..[his rule/order is law[on his ship]

<<Am I bound to what I signed?>>its a teqnical issue..[one signature isnt a legal contract,..then there is the matter of informed concent[both parties must have fully informed concent..[but lawyers wont be telling you this..[because they are a servant of the court franchise]

but we need do our own researches..[i did mine at thinkfreeforum[and world freeman society]..i put up the links previously

law is a funny beast..things we feel are process are the way our rights have been stolen..[govt is meant to serve us..[protect our well being..under the common weal..[instead they feather their own nests..think they can legislate us into slaves/to serve them or their masters

but people dont want to study the facts

never take any ones word for anything

research the facts yourself..[allways be asking the questions..[its the one who gives the answers that has the lessor standing[never lose your standing by saying you under/stand

[law is all about standing..[standing comes from being wronged[injured by another]..the victim has the highest standing under law,..no victim no crime..[thats why they make us slaves/servants..under contract law]

[they make us violate con-tracts..claioming ignorance of the law is no excuse, but never reveal the fact that contracts=[forms..[with rules..[hidden clauses,..then take us to court for breech of contract..

[but no lawyer will reveal the reality,...nor dare question it]
but im repeating myself..lol

Christianity is democracy. That is why it has succeeded in England and in the United States but is failing in Australia. As England is invaded by more and more Roman Catholics, from Europe, and Islamics from elsewhere, its Christian democracy is being destroyed. Our useless Australian lawyers have followed this stupid policy, introduced after World War II by the Poms to show gross ingratitude to the 100,000 Australian and New Zealand servicemen who paid with their lives, for democracy.

The Constitution of Australia guarantees democracy, by its S 79, which has courts, uncapitalised and judges (plural) uncapitalised. Our DADS, ( dumb as dogs droppings) Judges, and lawyers have refused to understand that a Court is not a court, and judges means judges of fact, not Judges as Satanic delegates of an atheist State. Throughout Ch III Constitution the only time a Capital Letter is used, is when a place is described. The Federal Supreme Court and High Court for example.

All Judges and Magistrates are delegates of Almighty God. Almighty God gave us democracy when He sent Jesus Christ to teach us its principles. Democracy is not compulsory voting, democracy is voting as one of twelve disciples of Jesus Christ calling down the Holy Spirit, and doing the will of Almighty God, on earth as it is in heaven. A proceeding in a court is an act of worship, if the court is democratically convened. That is, it has a Justice, not a Judge as president, and twelve members of the community sitting on the right hand of the Justice ( Father) to fulfil the promise in Luke 12 Verses 10-12. When the verdict is given, the promise of Jesus Christ that the truth will set you free, is carried out. Verdict means a declaration of the truth. Vengeance is mine saith the Lord, and that was why from 1297, a jury did all sentencing. Democracy is not served by State vengeance.

Since the Habeas Corpus Act 1640 16 Charles 1 Ch X, any undemocratic proceedings in any Court has been void. That is how the Constitution guarantees democracy

I am still asking why we continue stumbling blindly onward allowing these people, who slurp gluttonishly from the public-funded trough, to control virtually every single aspect of our lives from Birth to Death, ( and then of course we are only allowed to die by a method acceptable to them!), occasionally leaving us alone to our own machinations only because it suits them at the time!

Jewely:
You asked me why I emphasized "Bank Accounts" and "Removal of weapons"......

Before the Government compelled all of us to have a Bank Account (and the inevitable "Tax File Number") a lot of people, especially the elderly only had a simple Bank Book, which in itself did NOT involve "Account Keeping" fees.
We now have "Account Keeping" fees, "Transaction" fees and various other nefarious methods of extracting money from our accounts by these arrogant glorified money-lenders, the Banks, who thumb their noses at both their customers and the Government! ( and yet Government continues to pander to their every whim, denying any responsibilty in applying control to these racketeeers!)

The issue "removal of weapons":.... prior to John Howard`s very cunning method of creating a reason for introducing "Gun Control", nearly every property owner had a selection of weaponry to be used in the appropriate situation and at the same time affording him and his family the comfort of self-protection.
Now the same property owner is restricted to a single-shot weapon, which is next to useless when faced with a pack of rabid dogs!
Another issue in this regard is the inability of the local police to be available and provide the protection that a property owner may require under certain circumstances, especially in country areas!
This again all gets back to the issue of the right of an individual to protect himself and his family from the increasingly violent individuals in a society that administers minimum penalties to murderers and the like!

Crackup

"Now the same property owner is restricted to a single-shot weapon, which is next to useless when faced with a pack of rabid dogs!"

1. Rabies is non-existent in Australia.

2. Semi-auto shot guns are permitted to farmers and are sufficient to scare off dogs.

You further state:

"This again all gets back to the issue of the right of an individual to protect HIMSELF and HIS family from the increasingly violent individuals in a society that administers minimum penalties to murderers and the like!"

Um, some families are headed by females and I haven't heard of much petitioning for arms by matriarchal families. Nor have I heard of families being frequently besieged by mass killers. What part of Australia do you live in? Wolf Creek?

Most murders committed in the home are by males. (Yes I know there are bad women also, please don't start). Also all accidental shootings are caused by guess what - guns!

Where indeed is democracy if its citizens think they have a "right" to bear arms? A democracy like the USA? Such a wonderful example of that "right".

I agree Fractelle. For me gun ownership is not about the 'freedom' to bear arms but the freedom to be without fear from high gun ownership. Have we learnt nothing from the US.

Like beauty, freedom and rights are sometimes in the eye of the beholder.

Thomas Jefferson."A Govt big enough to give you everything you want,is strong enough to take everything you have."

We do not have true democracy.Did we elect Kevin Rudd to put us into $300 billion of debt? They will take everything we have.

Crackup
Judging on the media and their some what knee jerk reasoning which apparently you take extraordinary ques from one could reasonably assume
That you ,
- exist in a place akin to Fractelle's Wolf Creek
-In a suburb with a crime rate that even the media are afraid to report on (somewhere in Calabria perhaps)
- you are incredibly rich and unbelievably slack with security.
- or you as your nom d'plume 'might' suggest, are the proud proprietor of a crack lab and have the bikie thug groups as clients.

Seriously a head per capita crime comparison between say the 1930 and today is about the same.
Those differences that do exist come about by greater transparency in areas like power abuses, consumer affairs, child and spouse abuse (they were always there just not spoken about).
Crimes like burgalry, theft, murder there have periodic marginal down turns.
Look up charmers like Peter Curtain 'the so called vampire of Dusseldorf' Do a search on US cities unsolved crimes (allow a % for errors)
The over all rate given the explainable exceptions are much the same allowing for sociological affects like more people living closer together.
The media exists on sensationalizing the dramas.i.e. if it bleeds it leads. Even mass murder like 911 was blown out of proportion. 4000 people V 40000+ per year on the roads. (cars are safer than the 20 why then more deaths? more cars) More reporting of D&G sells papers to the insecure (reactionary) public. 1930's 100's of thousands killed in unreported wars, Take the US conquering of the Philippines or perhaps the Banana wars...These gave birth to the term 'gun boat diplomacy' yet the Spanish war was eulogized by the US press.

relax and analyze or you might have a.... crackup? :-)

"Before the Government compelled all of us to have a Bank Account (and the inevitable "Tax File Number") a lot of people, especially the elderly only had a simple Bank Book, which in itself did NOT involve "Account Keeping" fees.
We now have "Account Keeping" fees, "Transaction" fees and various other nefarious methods of extracting money from our accounts by these arrogant glorified money-lenders, the Banks, who thumb their noses at both their customers and the Government! ( and yet Government continues to pander to their every whim, denying any responsibility in applying control to these racketeeers!)" (Crackcup)

Absolutely agree with this point. I believe banks have a right to charge fees for transactions we CHOOSE to have with them, but I have always been strongly against the RECEIVER being charged these fees, when the SENDER has compelled them to receive them this way.

SHOCK! HORROR!! Yes, I DO believe that employers should meet any costs incurred if they choose to bank employees salaries, and Governments likewise for all benefits they choose to go directly to banks, leaving the recipient to pick up the costs of same.

Crackup and Ginx's points"Govt. forced us to have bank accounts" also needs some tuning (perspective).

Short answer, The number of people, cost and efficiency of distribution. To do otherwise was an issue in parliament ...”waste of tax payers money”

Like crime more people, more pensioners, more tax returns More checks to be printed, processed, posted, more chance of the money not getting to the right people and difficulty to get the damn things cashed and yes the embarrassment of cashing them.
(my dad was youth prison guard) he was paid by Social Security cheque he was often challenged at the banks when he tried to cash them about the amount of his 'dole' (sic). Eventually each cheque cost became a waste of money when it could be done at a umpteenth of the cost and many times more secure and a lot easier for the aged recipients.

At that stage something like 70 something % of the public had bank accounts and many business' were going that way too.
FYI I too was cranky as I 'banked' at a credit union which the banks wouldn't transfer individual cheques too. Eventually the gov. forced the banks to do the processing at a fee.(grr grumble grumble)
Business response was ...tough! It's cheaper for them and they got rewards to direct pay from the bank.
The banks saw the profit implications etc. and now fees are BANK profit centre i.e. our fees run the bank so the extra interest they earn is virtually sheer profit . The gov. if any thing should limit bank options (We have the highest fees in the world).

However, to limit either the businesses or the banks would be a 'gross' heresy against the one true god all (even Christians bow to)....Capitalism.

In that context the Tax file number reasoning is clear....security and ease of computerisation.

I know this because I was involved in earlier stages printing the cheques and later selling the computer monsters to governments. :-| sorry (?)

I agree with you about perspective Examinator...

I was not talking about the difficulties incurred by postal payment.

I was talking about who should wear the cost of fees incurred for something the recipient did not choose.

The Government could quite easily stop banks from charging fees for withdrawal of benefits. They choose not to, as they choose not to tighten up on ANY questionable bank practices.

It is illegal in the UK for banks to charge the kind of fees that they do here. The lack of action by Government/s here has led directly to the high cost of fees and charges.

They (banks) do it because they can get away with it.

I trust that is tuned enough for you?

There is sadly a large percentage of people in the community who cannot see that there is actually anything wrong at all. These people are usually rolling in wealth and the situation as it exists suits them admirably. Alternatively there is a second very much larger group of people who are simply people incapable of understanding the precarious position in which they are existing, or being allowed to exist!

The first group are commonly known as Capitalists, who worship wealth and all of its accoutrements. The second group are drowning in their lack of awareness because they have allowed ( willingly or unwillingly) themselves to be brain-washed by the agents of the first group. These people who are oblivious to their own ignorance really believe that they are very "lucky" people, living in a very "lucky" country, even though most of them have sold their souls to the money-lenders, in order to survive from day to day, because they believe that it is the way it is meant to be!

I would like to be a fly on the wall when the day arrives that even the sheets of toilet paper will be encrypted with surveillance microdots!

Examinator:
I am NOT a wealthy person, nor am I an inhabitant of your imaginary "Wolf Creek" ( although I am a country dweller! ). I do NOT use, participate or condone the use of any of the many "daily publicized" drugs ( apart from my addiction to the odd Rum and Coke!) however I do take seriously my right to protect myself and my family from any threat by believing in the preservation of my right to own a suitable firearm. After all, if there were no potential homicidal maniacs walking the streets and the back-roads of this country, then I would be quite happy to allow my continuing security to be dependant upon an invisible country police force!

Crackcup
To some extent we are all prisoners of the money lenders as you put it and certainly I think the whole world (Western) has gone a bit mad with rampant consumerism, waste and greed. However, I think the attitude is turning around and people by and large are sick of it.

Sometimes governments do play a positive role. Many years ago women who were abused had nowhere to go. I met one of the first woman involved in setting up the first series of womens' shelters in Australia and the flak she faced was the idea of governments becoming involved in private home affairs. Ironically there was not much government action on this issue at the time.

Looking back I guess this is the way people thought - you made your bed you lie in or what happens in the home stays in the home. Personally I think we are better off with refuges. This goes for many government programs.

Having worked for government on and off for many years I agree that they have run away a bit in terms of accountability and scrutiny but again I can see that is changing slowly at least in principle (hopefully to be followed by some real change).

Governments don't sit around thinking about how they can gain more control they generally react to a specific problem and sometimes the outcome may be regulation such as the seat belt laws.

I can understand why you might feel more secure in the country with a firearm but can you imagine if we were overrun with guns - there are certainly more homicidal maniacs in urban areas. America is no safer with their open gun ownership laws. In fact it is less safe.

“Before the Government compelled all of us to have a Bank Account (and the inevitable "Tax File Number") a lot of people, especially the elderly only had a simple Bank Book, which in itself did NOT involve "Account Keeping" fees. We now have "Account Keeping" fees, "Transaction" fees and various other nefarious methods of extracting money from our accounts by these arrogant glorified money-lenders, the Banks, who thumb their noses at both their customers and the Government! ( and yet Government continues to pander to their every whim, denying any responsibilty in applying control to these racketeeers!)”

Oh, gotchya. Is there anywhere that you can still just have a bank book? One of those things I never thought about.

No one can get cash or a loan or anything without all those things? Except OUG of course the sneaky bugger.

“The issue "removal of weapons":.... prior to John Howard`s very cunning method of creating a reason for introducing "Gun Control", nearly every property owner had a selection of weaponry to be used in the appropriate situation and at the same time affording him and his family the comfort of self-protection. Now the same property owner is restricted to a single-shot weapon, which is next to useless when faced with a pack of rabid dogs!”

There was a suspicious looking apricot poodle hanging outside my house the other day. But I think one shot would have done it if I wasn’t so worried it was a DoCS worker in disguise.

Crackup, you are not allowed an automatic weapon. Give me your mothers phone number immediately

Democracy is a scam to keep dumb people stupid and the working class in slavery, as well as dumb. Two foxes and a hen cannot vote on what's for dinner!

i should correct that statement[i dont lend]dont borrow[ok i let the kids mortgauge the house]but i figure if they lose it so what[i will get to test out some of the theories, and worse gets to worse just dismantle the house i built and rebuild it on some horse paddock[i expect to get on a ten year lease]

im not a great one for respecting money[or those clever bwankers enslaving the people with printed plastic]got no time for govt or lawyers[or doctors and especially dentists][one of whom enjoyed etching the enamal from my teeth at the gum line[leaving me with incisors to chew with]

the police disarmed me a few years back[taking my disabled gun colection and jailing me for the privledge,so im not at all impressed with any machinations of the beast,but wreak my futile revenge on ther system by blogging my truth,little caring what they might think of do

its quite liberating not giving a fuc, for myself i couldnt care less what they do[im over this whole ioncarnate experience[i well know this realm belongs to those serving the most vile, and am quite content to serve out my life sentance exposing the darkside for the darkness i know [personally] that they do

the system stinks...[but its so clever..so it thinks..so who am i to reveal its not as clever as it thought..im nothing to the collective them..[why they are so determined to try to stuff me arround is of little affect..[i dont react..[i try to interreact,when and how as i chose

when they arrest me they know they must carry me,and if they want to play more they can drag me nakked from my bed,i resist them only in word,..you cant fight evil..only ignore it,..the poor fools are so afraid of each other's powers they got more that enough real problems[they funnilly have no clue about..lol

[i wouldnt waste the spit it would take to spit on them..[nor the pizz to pisss em off]..noting scum floats to the top,im quite content to stay here on the bottum