Peter the deceiver,

"the Four Gospels are actually law". I don't believe you would know law if it hit you between the eyes. The quote you give essentially implies that there should be no law on earth, as law is useless without implemention.

While some can be trusted to abide by moral principles most (incl christians) cannot. Luckily even the greens are not that fruity.

Hi Daviy,

On Enoch;

According to Eisemann & Wise, the Book of Giants was extensively read in the Roman Empire. Multiple copies were found among the Qumran texts. The Watchers (Nephilim) were the progeny of fallen angels and human women.

And in the OT,

“And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. “ Genesis 6:1-2

Again, the heavenly angels (Sons of God) know terrestrial women. Unlike in Medieval Christianity, the Watchers (Sons of God in the OT) appear to have been only male: In Medieval times, these visitors were male (incubi) and female (succubi).

The concept of "walking with god” is interesting. 4Q532 (i.e. from Cave Four) though highly fragmented appears to refer to pious knowledge, mighty ones and Heaven. In the document, there is text referring to Earth and Heaven and great knowledge. Because Enoch was alive in Heaven, he gained knowledge of the “heavenly spheres” and he could, “compute the paths of their hosts”. Enoch the Righteous’ knowledge of the celestial matters seems to enjoin calendars (Jubilees):

“Enoch after we instructed him (missing) six Jubilees of years (missing) earth among all mankind and he witnessed against them all (missing) and also against the Watchers. And he wrote down all the (missing) the heavens all their paths of their hosts, all the months (missing) in which the Righteous have not erred.” 4Q277

Above, please note, “we (plural) instructed him”. Enoch appears to have ascended from Earth to Heaven, where he was instructed (including in astronomy) by some otherworldly others and then was returned to Earth. The plural is consistent with Genesis 1:26, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness…” Genesis 1:26.

Noah and Enoch were both Righteous and apparently had authority to instruct. Conversely, Sons of God, a.k.a, Demons, allegedly wrongfully convey knowledge to us. The Snake (an angel; Son of God?)
and the Tree of Knowledge seem to take a similar course:

“And the Lord God commended the man, saying ‘Of every tree in the garden thou mayest freely eat; but not of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it…” Genesis 2:16-17

The tree of knowledge an allegory for learning from a fallen angel? That is, knowledge covereyed from the Unrighteous?

In Greek, the word “Demon” is etymologically related to the word, “knowledge”. Tertullian maintained Demons live in the air, “the stars are their neighbours”.

The early, middle and modern Christian Church stood/stands opposed to knowledge or “gnosis”, by self-discovery. Over time, said Church, seems to have placed itself, as a conduit and censor, between God and Man.

Following-on from these scriptures, if the Christian Church is Righteous, then it has the mandate of God. Would its history suggest this is the case? If not, then… “such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.” 2 Corinthians 11: 13-14

Cheers,

Oly.

Dear Opinopnated2,

Just thought I'd add my two cents worth...
I'm learning more from your thread - and the
wonderful posts that it's produced then I ever
did in 'Bible Classes.'

Thank You for an interesting thread.

More please!

Hi Oliver

The text of Enoch I have is called the 'Ethiopian' text supposedly because three copies of The book of Enoch where found in an Ethiopian church.

<Observe ye everything that takes place in the heaven, how they do not change their orbits, and the luminaries which are in the heaven, how they all rise and set in order each in its season, and transgress not against their appointed order. Behold ye the earth, and give heed to the things which take place upon it from first to last, how steadfast they are, how none of the things upon earth change, but all the works of God appear to you.>
The Book of Enoch chapter 2

From a twenty-first century perspective does this sound like a description of a spaceship in fixed orbit?

It seems from my reading that the crew of the spaceship had the rank of Angels. The four command officers of the starship had the rank of Archangels, and their names were (are?) Michael, Gabriel, Rachael and Uriel. The commander had the rank of God. Above All was the Lord of the Spirits.

Are you familiar with this version?

There are two separate accounts of the creation of man and woman in Genesis. The first is:

Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Man and woman were created together. It ends:

Genesis 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Then another account starts:

Genesis 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,

<SKIP>

Genesis 2:21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; 2:22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man. 2:23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

Woman was created from man.

One can see the obvious contradiction without any additional analysis. However, scholars have examined the Bible texts and made judgments as to their composition.

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Documentary_hypothesis
The documentary hypothesis (DH) is the proposal that the first five books of the Old Testament (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy, known collectively as the Torah or Pentateuch) represent a combination of documents from originally independent sources. According to the influential version of the hypothesis formulated by Julius Wellhausen (1844–1918), there were four main sources, and these sources and the approximate dates of their composition were:
The J, or Jahwist, source; written c. 950 BCE in the southern kingdom of Judah.
The E, or Elohist, source; written c. 850 BCE in the northern kingdom of Israel.

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