Hi Opinionated2

It can be difficult for a person confronted by a fundamentalist Christian face to face, especially if it is quite rare for them to interact in the normal course of their lives. The initial reaction is to push back as you are doing.

How would you would react to a traditional indigenous Australian who told you about their 'dreamtime' and admitted to believing in a the literal truth of those oral stories? Would you be as disparaging?

Perhaps a little understanding of a persons sometimes urgent need to make sense of what can seem a very frightening world and their place in it. Possibly for your guest a need for answers and a solid foundation to her life has led her to adopt a fundamentalist creed. Is it your role to strip that from her? Perhaps time may have been better spent addressing some of her fears because often there are many of them that accompany such a believer. Persecution has always served to entrench rather than weaken beliefs.

Rabbi Kustner talks about G-d being a mirror and when people look to him they see much of themselves reflected. But like your guest, you seem to sift the best fit parts of the bible for yourself. Who is to say your interpretation of Jesus' message and life are correct?

You are right in that fundamentalist Christianity has little to do with the literal word of the bible but think of it as more an organic force rather than a theological one, and in many ways more human.

One of their great sins though is to verse pluck and mashup to create messages that are not supported by a proper reading of scripture, e.g. the parable of the ‘Talents’ to justify a ‘prosperity gospel’. Aren’t your ‘rape’ and ‘homosexual’ references are guilty of the same?

Try this for fun, go read the OT book of Esther, don’t dwell on arranged marriages, concubines etc , instead think of Mordecai as Israel, King Xeres as the US and if I could be very cheeky, Queen Esther as Madeline Albright.

Pericles - I am stunned

The point I am making through the questions I ask is so simple ... Christians believe that the Bible is the inerrant word of God. Some even believe that God guided the hand of those who wrote the books.

Many preachers preach this every week ... if what they are preaching is demonstrably wrong, then, Christians need to know.

That is why I mentioned the trinity ... Jesus' word in John 14:28 does not confirm it ... It was a construct of man. Therefore if this is true it isn't God's word! God is God, Jesus is the Son Of God and the holy spirit is God's power in action. Simple!

We know that the Bible states that God hates homosexuals... but it says in Deuteronomy 22:28-29 that women should marry their rapists ... Could the most intelligent entity in the Christians Universe, God, make such a law against a woman? It is intellectually incomprehensible that God would make this law and so to call it God's law would be a falsehood. Either the Bible contains errors or a Christian should insist that all laws not changed by Jesus in Matthew 5 & 6 be enforced.

Now of course they wouldn't want Deuteronomy 22:28-29 it is a ridiculous law... but they need wonder why it is in the Bible. Maybe their oppression of homosexuals isn't their God's word either!

So I choose to show Christians that their Bible is not inerrant (as many claim) by pointing out the errors in their reference book.

Matthew 1:16 and Luke 3:23 on Joseph's genealogy don't conform... Are there errors? If the answer is yes the Bible is wrong!

Once we establish that the Bible contains errors then the Bible can not be inerrant and their journey re-begins here.

I ask Christians to consider if what they are being taught is accurate. Is it their duty, as a Christian, to make sure they are being taught the truth. For to lie or misrepresent their God's word or laws would be a sin - wouldn't it?

Csteele thankyou for your reply. You ask a very interesting question regarding the aboriginal dream time.

I have no problem with the aboriginal dream time whatsoever, nor do I have any problem with someone's right to believe in God.

There is a massive difference though. The bible threatens the wrath of God on people. It claims we are all sinners and we may end up in the pitfires of hell. In it's pages it justifies rape, murder, land theft, hates homosexuals and lays down laws that are so unGodly that it beggars belief.

I have faced the blind faith of Christians many times. It is only by referring them back to their Bible that you can break through the "I believe" shield and actually get them to contemplate on why a supreme being would approve so acceptingly of what it states.

I get amazed when people suggest I sift through the bits to suit my stance. That is utter rubbish. When I read the Bible I read it like you would read anybook. When I get to a page that justifies something like slavery... I read it over and over. I try to contemplate how these bits reflect the will of a loving God.

I am not against faith... I question religious interpretations and the selective use of scripture to justify those interpretations.

It is simply analysis.

If a Christian believes that their God made such horrific laws then isn't the loving caring God theory out the window? I bring these horrific rules to their attention so I might further understand why they don't seem to bother them.

From my experience most don't know they are even there... Why?

They aren't mentioned by preachers because they conflict with the concept of a loving God. Who then is being selective

Dear Opinionated2,

Don’t you realise what you are doing? You are assailing my faith. This is a part my life that sustains me, calms me, gives me joy and deep fellowship. I have willingly given myself over to it totally and that has meant accepting the literal truth of the bible. My life circumstances do not allow me the luxury nor do I have the inclination for deep contemplation of the theological complexities that I understand exist in the Bible, but what I have is more precious than life itself and it works for me in so many different ways.

And I want to share that gift with others. I would rather spend my time spreading the Good News rather than critiquing each and every verse in the Bible. You might think the validity of this gift hinges on a few verses I do not. I am in love and if you have experienced it and given yourself over to it totally you may understand that the imperfections others perceive matter little.

You say “I bring these horrific rules to their attention so I might further understand why they don't seem to bother them.”

I need to understand why you seem to be so threatened by such a loving commitment to a faith. You seem to want me to pull it all down and rebuild it in your image of a loving G-d. I need those solid foundation stones in my life and you are like a thorn in the cracks trying to wedge them apart piece by piece. Anyhow what makes your image any more valid than mine? Is there a sense that you are a slighted bridesmaid here, piqued by the all consuming love you see in front of you?

Might not your anger be better directed at an orthodox Jew? After all the OT is their book too without the overlaying message of love from Jesus.

You appear to still be searching for answers but I have found mine and I pray that maybe you will one day tread the same path.

c ‘born-again-for-a-day’ steele

Oliver,
The Hebrews saw man as a single unity, The Greeks saw man as a tripate being of body soul and spirit. The Bible uses the singular name Father, Son and Holy Spirit in Matthew 28: 18, even as Isaiah 9: 6.

When we identify spirit it is manifest in character, personality and attitude etc i.e. pure sacrifical love is spiritual and only has reality as seen by us in demonstrated action; yet the value of sacricial love is eternal and pure (holy).

The act of pure love is a reality yet it is not of itself physical but is manifest by the character in the physical and expresses the very character of God. In spirit terms it it to be eternally sdmired above any organic form.

Jesus was mortal man just like all of us. He was born and he died. We do not extol his body as some are want to do; we extol his character because it expressed the very nature of God. His body is not divine. Though his spirit sanctified his body exclusively as a servant of God Acts 2: 22 - 24

Csteele wrote: Might not your anger be better directed at an orthodox Jew? After all the OT is their book too without the overlaying message of love from Jesus.

Dear Csteele,

Jesus’ message of love was from his Jewishness.

Leviticus 19:18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

Note the command not to be vengeful. That statement could be interpreted as an injunction to love only the children of thy people. However, sixteen verses later, the Jewish God makes the explicit command to love the stranger.

LEVITICUS 19:34 But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

A loving God shows up early. Cain murdered his brother, and God is angry so he tells Cain
that he will be severely punished. Cain's response follows:

GENESIS 4:13 And Cain said unto the LORD, My punishment is greater than I can bear. 4:14 Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me. 4:15 And the LORD said unto him,
Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the
LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.

God is merciful and protects Cain under his protection. God's vengeance is softened by a human plea. Religious supporters of capital punishment please note.

Love in the Jewish Bible differs from that in the New Testament. In the Jewish Bible, the emphasis is on the love of humans for one another, and in the New Testament, the emphasis is on the love between humans and God and the love of humans for other
abstractions such as righteousness.

Continued