Thanks Csteele but peace between you and your father to me is far more important than a holy war between you two based on questions I may choose to ask...lol

Honestly, I am not out to destroy a person's faith... I want people to be told the truth.

God knowing we would fail allegedly placed the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the garden of Eden.

If this is true then he must have wanted you to have a questioning mind!

In the last post I placed an error in it to see who really knows their Bible... No-one responded, so I should point it out.

Luke 19:27 is part of "The Parable of the Gold Coins" ... Jesus does not tell his people to kill anyone in this parable or the NT from my knowledge. This is a really good thing for Christians. It shows a clear delineation between the God of the OT and the God of the NT.

However, does this parable contain an implied threat from Jesus within the last verse? Why did he add it as it was really an unnecessary end to the parable?

BUT if Jesus is GOD as many Christians believe then the passages previously quoted from the OT are allegedly his. You can't have it both ways people.

Would the supposedly loving God you cherish and adore want you to kill people in his name? Deuteronomy 17:12, Exodus 21:15, Leviticus 21:9, Deuteronomy 22:20-21

Would he create the abominable laws that appear in the OT? eg. Exodus 21:7-11

Would your Christ be a part of the murders that were committed in his name by Moses? Numbers 31:7-18

Why do churches regularly break Jesus' precise instruction in Matthew 6:7-9? Why do churches limit communion to "confirmed members only" when Jesus said no such thing.

Why if Herod died in 4BC aren't you told this?... there is no problem with this date that would rock the Christian world but I doubt most even realise this. Is the church supposed to teach the truth or their version of the truth.

Peace all!

You see OP2, this is where you go off the rails.

>>Note to Pericles - that is why I ask the question when debating religion - "If Jesus' word isn't good enough whose is"?<<

Once again, you present your argument in the form of a closed, rhetorical question. Seriously - do you honestly believe that this is a legitimate way to conduct a discussion?

But I'm going to ignore that for the moment, and concentrate your attention on its actual content.

Let's start with the concept of "Jesus' word"

There are absolutely no contemporary sources that allow you, or anyone, to state definitively what Jesus actually said.

None.

So you cannot for a moment assume that anything at all is actually "Jesus' word", and therefore the concept of it being "good enough" does not arise.

Which also highlights another massive flaw in your "argument".

>>Why if Herod died in 4BC aren't you told this?... there is no problem with this date that would rock the Christian world but I doubt most even realise this. Is the church supposed to teach the truth or their version of the truth.<<

The date, 4BC, is an estimate, arrived at by historians and archaeologists. Along with all the others associated with biblical stories, it is a date that can be adjusted as new physical evidence is uncovered.

But even that is missing the point. The message that most Christians take from the Bible has nothing to do with dates, or Herod, or the time of day the crucifixion was held, or the number of people at the sermon on the mount.

As >99% of Christians will tell you, if you bothered to ask them (instead of telling them what they think, which is your preferred method), the Bible is not a historical document. And therefore by definition should not be measured as one.

I am still at a total loss to divine your motivation for this attack on the beliefs of others, OP2.

It seems to border on hysteria, but for no discernible reason.

Fair Dinkum - Pericles... boring!

I know there is absolutely no proof that Jesus even spoke those words DER... BUT "Christians" believe he did so the question is very relevant.

If THEY believe that Jesus said these words and if THEY believe that those words are important as Christians then THEY should pay more attention to Jesus' word and not all the other garbage in the bible.

So if a Christian believes absolutely that Jesus spoke these words then the question is appropriate to them.. It is asking them whose words do they really believe.. the God of the OT or Jesus' words (the alleged son of God)!

To open their minds they firstly need to be shown that Christianity absolutely is reliant on the words reportedly delivered by Jesus and not the words man or the ancient stories contained in ancient texts.

OMG ... so dates, numbers alleged facts in the Bible are of no importance to Christians... what rot! Christianity is always trying to prove the Bible is infallible, God's word and inerrant. It is a major claim... they need to be shown the imperfections contained within as a basis to educating them further. That is what this article is trying to do.

Can you prove your 99% figure that you state. Of course not but accuracy is not important to you. How many Christians still believe man was made from clay? You need a new survey Pericles before you quote such a crazy figure!

I doubt you would know what motivates me if I put a sign up in front of you Pericles... THE TRUTH!

Trust me Opinionated2, there is nothing you have offered up so far that hasn't been covered many times over the years between my father-in-law and myself. In fact compared to what we get into now it is quite old hat.

This is more about you. What 3 questions would mean the most to you, ones that you are really interested in hearing the answers to? That is of course unless your questions are rhetorical thus really statements.

If that is the case then it is just as revealing. Might it be that you really don't want to hear from the literalists but are more interested in gathering supporters to your crusade?

In any case the offer still stands.

Not quite, OP2. Not quite.

>>BUT "Christians" believe he did so the question is very relevant. If THEY believe that Jesus said these words and if THEY believe that those words are important as Christians then THEY should pay more attention to Jesus' word and not all the other garbage in the bible.<<

You are still making a simple and fundamental mistake.

Let's take two people. The one on the right is a Christian. The one on the left is you.

You say "Jesus said this and the Bible says that. How can this be?"

Christian: "Eh? What's so important about that?"

You: "But it must be important because they say different things"

Christian: "So what? Do you think that anyone actually takes the Bible literally?"

You: "Of course you do, you're a Christian, aren't you?"

Christian "Yes, but I'm not stupid. Anyway, what's it to you?"

You: "I'm educating you. I'm showing you where you are going wrong"

Christian: "And what makes you think I need to hear this from you?"

You: "Because I'm right and you're wrong, dammit"

Christian: "Sod off. Oh, and have a nice life"

Pericles... I never said I was right and they are wrong... You make stuff up as you go and have done throughout this entire discussion.

So let me finish with a pretend conversation also but containing your comment.

>>As >99% of Christians will tell you, if you bothered to ask them (instead of telling them what they think, which is your preferred method), the Bible is not a historical document.<<

Me : Pericles where did you get the >99% figure?

Pericles : No idea

Me : Did you make up the figure like that just so you could be argumentative? Do you any data to back it up? You can point to no survey that shows this?

Pericles : No, I assumed it to be true.

Me : You assume statistical information and assume it to be true Pericles?

Pericles : Well yes doesn't everyone?

Me : Um no Pericles - now go have a lie down!

Pericles : But I'm not tired ... I need to make more statistics up...

Time to remove that log in your eye Pericles...lol