From your post csteele, Tuesday, 24 February 2009 you state that according to the Bible Christians are to kill unbelievers. Could you please establish a case from the NT that supports such a claim.

Remember the OT is not a directive or basis for individual Christian action. Study closely the words of Christ. The OT gives a directive for the army of Israel to protect the ancient Nation and its families.

As far as the book of Daniel is concerned you misquote the context. "Just been re-reading Daniel and had a vision. It was of a rat in a mitre hat polishing the feet of a gold covered Cristo Redentor while the Auschwitz ovens simmered in the background.

It has nothing to do with Auschwitz. They were devout Jewish boys taken captive to Babylon and the furnace was real in Babylon, not a vision of Germany.

Opinionated2,
May I suggest your thoughts are dominated by negativity you need a changed mind if you are going to make a positive contribution to others thoughts and good behaviour

Op2,
You ask "why do Christian churches hold true the judgments they place on homosexuals?"

It is both socially and intellectually violates the natural order of good health, sexuality and procreation. It is the very act of anal sex that is condemned not what has become today a class of effeminite males who are directed by peers into sex with other males. They are very capable of a relationship with a female and procreation. Bi-sexual males equally fall into this condemned catagory because of their sexual actions.

Philo,

I am not negative at all ... I am quoting direct passages from the Bible... Let love and peace rule!

Philo are you arguing that homosexuals choose to be homosexuals?

Jesus said : Matthew 5:17-19 Do not think I have come to change the Law of Moses .... He then went on to change many of the laws. He changed the law from an eye for an eye to turn the other cheek. He never mentioned the rape laws, the slavery laws, the multiple wives laws in those changes.

And yet man (rightly) has changed those unGodly laws for they were obviously wrong! Why then is man so selective? Why can't man accept the loving relationship between two members of the same gender. Why does this crazy law apply when the other crazy laws don't?

Philo If it is "the ability to procreate" that makes it unlawful then a man and woman who can't conceive have the same problem. If it is the act that is the problem then many heterosexuals are also guilty of that alleged sin. We don't hear lectures on that!

Jesus is very silent on homosexuality... and yet his churches are very vocal - why? Aren't Christians supposed to follow the example of Jesus' teachings?

John 8:3-5 Jesus says ..."Let he who has not sinned cast the first stone"... Christians accept that they are sinners and yet they throw verbal, spiritual, emotional and non-empathetic boulders at our homosexual community.

Jesus also warns Christians in Luke 12:32-34 about riches. Why don't churches follow Jesus' precise instructions?

Jesus walked the Earth in a gown, cloak and sandals ... Is this article close to correct? http://jmm.aaa.net.au/articles/16261.htm so much for bible passages when it comes to money!

And what of this http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,,25024449-27197,00.html how can a church do what this article alleges?

And relatedly how can a church do what this article alleges? http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,,25083343-3102,00.html

Why do they vilify homosexuals who want to form a loving relationship and then allegedly protect members who commit an alleged crime of the same act?

How can this be?

Hi Philo,

I know you asked csteele but seeing I am doing my bible studies atm these go pretty close to Jesus allegedly saying kill non-believers...

Luke 19:27 - Jesus allegedly says "But as for these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slaughter them before me."

Matthew 13:41-42

"The Son of man(Jesus) shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth."

Hell is worse than death I think.

You did advise us to "Study closely the words of Christ".

Now please don't suggest I am being negative here I am answering your question with a direct bible quote.

Note to Pericles - that is why I ask the question when debating religion - "If Jesus' word isn't good enough whose is"?

This is why the bible is taught selectively... There are all manner of alleged teachings in there that really undermine God and Jesus.

People don't follow the bible in it's entirety because it is seriously flawed ...

Do you believe Jesus would say such a thing?

Philo, you claimed “From your post csteele, Tuesday, 24 February 2009 you state that according to the Bible Christians are to kill unbelievers.” Don't think I did however I am more than happy to state that Christians have killed countless numbers of Jews over the last two millennia, gruesomely and often involving fire.

You say Daniel “has nothing to do with Auschwitz” but if I were a Jew I would might be tempted to see it as a prophecy, remembering Daniel was all about visions and the future.

From the Crusaders massacring Jews on the Rhine before making their way to the holy land, to the Spanish Inquisition where so many Jews refusing to convert where burnt at the stake, culminating in the Holocaust where a Christian Europe slaughtered millions, many consumed by the fires of Auschwitz, there is a name that links this all and that name is Jesus Christ.

Admittedly I was tying some different threads together, Ratzinger’s laxity on deniers within the church (you may recall he was a member of the Hitler Youth), the elevation of the man Jesus to a God, and the cross or the sword history of Christianity. While vision is probably too strong a word for it that was the image my brain threw up when reading Daniel 3 so it was hardly an issue of it being out of context. Those “Jewish boys” you talk about were told “whoso falleth not down and worshippeth shall the same hour be cast into the midst of a burning fiery furnace” and yet they refused, as did many Jews under Christian rule and they suffered the consequences.

However the notion of the formation of modern day Israel being like the castrated Daniel ‘getting his balls back’ might need to be retired.

Here is an offer Opinionated2, that is if you are really interested in why,

My father-in-law is a ridgy-didge ‘born-again’ Christian literalist, fundamentalist of the old school with an unshakable belief in the inerrancy of the bible. He recently had me bailed up about the 100 or so amendments the Rudd government has made to laws governing the rights of homosexuals.

If you would like to formulate your best 3 questions I will pass them on to him and if he is happy enough to answer them I will post them up here.

Make them good if you are going to play because I will only get one crack at this. Expect straight answers.