Hey Opinionated2

You said “Just as an update I have been told lately a few times by our beloved Christian friends that the Qu'ran says to kill non-believers... Wow... but the news that astounded them was that so does the Bible…”

Now here we may be in agreement Opinionated2 . I certainly see the cauterising of bigotry acceptable use of biblical education and this has biblical echoes in “ye who are without sin cast the first stone”. I had a similar experience with an in-law condemning Muslims for being moon worshipers as it was a symbol of Islam. I explained that orthodox Jews regard it as obligatory each month to consecrate the moon and if the new moon occurs on the Sabbath a place an extra dish is prepared in its honour. In the Christianity of Shakespeare’s time the moon was deemed to have a higher authority than the King. The matter was not raised again.

However complete denigration of the literalists for the belief system they have chosen to adopt is not the same.

Pericles,

You have become tedious and therefore a somewhat waste of time.

I said >>Why does doctrinal teachings suppress intellect and the use of God's gift - intelligence?<<

Dumb is never mentioned... many people believe, but then stop analysing and therefore cease intellectual examination of the facts... that is not dumb - that is not analysing or expanding ones religious knowledge.

>>How can anyone believe that their loving compassionate God could come up with such horrid laws?<< This is asking them to question laws like Deutronomy 22:28-29, 22:23-24 20:9,Exodus 21:15, 22:19 etc. It has nothing to do with dumb. Many when i tell them didn't even know these alleged laws existed.

>>How can they ignore the scripture they claim is infallible? Does this make them fibbers?<< This is again asking them to think about the word infallible before they use it... Dumb was never mentioned.

You have used the words "personal confusion" several times... Check that log in your eye again Pericles you missed it ...lol I am not confused... it seems you are confused... I never called anyone dumb.

Pericles - you have proven you are a conspiracy theorist... starting my own religion... Ha! That is laughable!

You are an argumentative little person Pericles... no substance just lots of criticism. If the word "dumb" is your best attempt to rattle me perhaps you should stay silent... Now that would be intelligent. Ha!

Davidf - I am not certain that Jesus expression of love was only from his Jewishness. See here http://www.sol.com.au/kor/7_01.htm I haven't read this in a long time but it may be instructional.

To all you Christians please don't listen to Pericles interpretation of what I said... You are not dumb! Further your religious education - knowledge is power

Opinionated2, whether or not you find me tedious, you are still unable to see what is so blindingly obvious to others.

Which is that your ego-tripping on the contradictions inherent in the bible is impolite, and marginally offensive.

It is one thing to conduct an open discussion in which individuals can offer their views.

It is completely another to nag us all with a series of rhetorical questions, each designed to insult the beliefs of Christians.

You cannot weasel your way out with hair-splitting, either. There is no discernible difference between telling someone that they are not using their intelligence, and telling them that they are dumb.

Also, using phrases like "how can anyone believe" and "how can anyone ignore" are only slightly-veiled insults.

Try it in a pub discussion sometime. Go up to someone in full Cronulla Sharks regalia, and ask them "how can anyone believe that League is a better game than Union?"

Then stand back. You will quickly find that this mode of enquiry is generally deemed an act of aggression, and will get an appropriate reaction.

>>Many when i tell them didn't even know these alleged laws existed.<<

Well what a surprise. I bet they were really grateful to you for pointing them out.

But I also bet they were puzzled why you, as a non-Christian, would concern yourself with the minutiae of their religion, to the point where you feel the need to chastise them for their ignorance. Much as the Cronulla Sharks guy would be surprised when you told him, through your bleeding nose, that you held no actual affection for any football code.

But you do have something of a ticket on yourself, don't you?

>>Pericles - you have proven you are a conspiracy theorist... starting my own religion... Ha! That is laughable!<<

Your conceit is so deep that you interpreted my question...

"Do you expect to guide Christians to a new religion? If so, what is it?"

...to be a suggestion that you intend to start your own.

As you might say... Ha!

Opinionated2 wrote:

Davidf - I am not certain that Jesus expression of love was only from his Jewishness. See here http://www.sol.com.au/kor/7_01.htm I haven't read this in a long time but it may be instructional.

Dear Opinionated2,

I think love is a human concern which has expressed itself many times and in many places. The particular expression of it chosen by Jesus was the same as the expression of it in the Old Testament. I attributed his expression of his love to the Old Testament or his Jewishness since the words were the same. The expression of his love is not the same thing as his love itself. It is merely the language in which he chose the expression.

He may well have been in India before and after the Crucifixion as the website you sent me to contends. One thing questionable about the site you referred me too was its use of the Shroud of Turin as the evidence of the position of the nails in Jesus' crucifixion. The shroud has been exposed as a fake by the analysis of its fibers which according to that analysis date from a late medieval period.

Just been re-reading Daniel and had a vision. It was of a rat in a mitre hat polishing the feet of a gold covered Cristo Redentor while the Auschwitz ovens simmered in the background.

Perhaps Philo might like to interpret it for me.

But to be even handed so to speak Rabbi Perin would like davidf to know one million Arabs say their prayers whenever he uses a hammer.

Pericles ... have you totally lost the plot? Are you arguing for a continuance of misleading the congregations of churches about their Bible, dishonesty in teaching, and are you against proper religious education & informing people of biblical facts?

Is keeping people uninformed or ill-informed your purpose here? You seem to be angry that I tell the truth... Wow!

With each post your frustrations grow... lie down mate... you are getting high blood pressure...lol

What about people who find it offensive that anyone would think that their loving God would allow these crazy, horrid laws in the Bible and express that - Laws like Deuteronomy 17:12, 22:17, 21:9, 13:13-19 etc. Are they allowed to be offended?

Maybe saying they are the laws of their loving God and that they are a part of an allegedly inerrant bible is an even bigger insult to their God! Surely God wants Christians to know the truth about the Bible.

Thankyou for the parable of the Cronulla pub - comparing Rugby League with Union might get me bashed in a Cronulla pub ... thanks for the warning - that is laughable! Cronulla residents who drink in pubs - Pericles has branded you all thugs...lol I lived in Sutherland Shire - what rot you post... ha!

You asked >>"Do you expect to guide Christians to a new religion? If so, what is it?"<<

Nope I was educating them about problems with the Bible and what they have been taught in their current religion. Simple really!

csteele - Good to see that you too have taken opportunities to explain to people things that unless explained would lead to greater bigotry.. I think I do the same.

David f - The Shroud of Turin has been disproven and therefore I remain sceptical of any information there. I agree with you love is a human condition - not owned by any religion.