Here is a "Sea kitten" site for you (not!) Even though the site is in Dutch language the pictures tell the story.If anyone needs a course translation, please ask. But the main line will probably read, "Men need to prove their manhood".Sick if you ask me!
http://www.partijvoordedieren.nl/content/view/126//weblog/view/1027/Marianne_Thieme

I did not lie Dickie you spoke of an illness in that thread.
And I am afraid unlike you I stand by what I say and if wrong admit it.
You need to control you raw anger, some times I ask myself why men are pounced on for far less than you so often use in the form of insults.
The thread is now animal rights with a side issue of should we eat them at all.
Frankly vegetarians trying to stop meat eating is even more funny than sea Kittens!
To think some are content to sell the vegan message just as the world is about to be flooded with altered vegetables is of more concern to me than those two headed fish, at least they never made it to the table.

“If you are speaking of range land, then you would know it is has been and is being stressed by livestock to the point of un-viability in many instances.”

An excellent assessment on the state of Australia Jonathon Byrd – particularly Yabby’s state (Western Australia.)

Regrettably, Agricultural Minister, Tony Burke and the MLA continue their junkets overseas, coercing poor countries into buying more meat (dead or alive) from Australia.

The state of WA is of no consequence, particularly the salinity, which is engulfing the equivalent of 19 footy fields per day. WA is the largest exporter of live animals.

Apart from the cruelty aspect, the growing of hard hoofed animals, on nearly 60% of our land mass, is creating a catastrophic and unsustainable environment for ourselves and our future generations: Again, I provide the following disturbing excerpts:

“Society has a fundamental duty to ensure that freeholders manage soils and lessees manage the rangelands vegetation in an ecologically sustainable way. This is because sustainability is the ultimate physical basis of continuing survival and economic viability. For society to be content with ecologically unsustainable management of these resources is for it to condone a threat to its own survival.

"Society's responsibility and duty to require its own and private management of agricultural land and natural renewable resources to be ecologically and sustainably productive has precedence over every individual person's and corporation's agricultural and pastoral land ownership rights.

"WA's current and potential soil salinity crisis warrants government seriously to consider new land ownership rights. WA has not enforced ecologically sustainable productivity on the management of its publicly-owned rangelands.

"Whereas the land-use managers - whether of pastoral leases or agricultural freehold - are culpable for the resource degradation they tolerate or have caused, society is culpable for allowing those who have over-cropped, over-grazed, over-cleared and are continuing to do so.

"The common public good seems to have been neglected by government in favour of private landed property ownership. The plea of government ignorance could once have been sustained, but certainly not at any time during this last quarter century at least.“

http://www.csu.edu.au/research/crsr/ruralsoc/v6n2p3.htm

Nicky,

Yabby is from the old school. He is finding it difficult to come to grips with the changing world his ancestors have left him. He sees his livelihood and way of life threatened by any mention of not eating meat. He therefore, understandably responds in a manner steeped in ridicule.

I harbour no grudge towards him.

It is sad that humans must change to accommodate advancing knowledge because it means that some will be affected detrimentally but that is how it has been since the year dot. The wooden wheel replacing the stone, the horse buggy replaced by the petrol engine, ships replaced by planes, all happened at a cost to many.

The bigger picture has presented humans with a dilemma never before faced. We have run out of new frontiers. It is therefore necessary to re-examine the reasons for this and change, if we wish to continue as a race.

Our before assumption, that we are separate from nature and its absolute controller, need challenging and challenging with vigour, if we expect to continue on this recently recognised reality that we exist on a very fragile planet.

dickie,

You amplify the reasons as to why the economy surrounding diet is so important a subject that it is foolishly reckless to dismiss all options available by trite comment.

Jonathon

In case we needed further evidence beyond that provided by Dickie, Jonathan and others:-

"A four-legged chicken has been smuggled out of a Hunter Valley, NSW, chicken processing facility by a worker fearful for his own health.

The worker noticed the abnormality during routine processing work at the factory.

"I have worked in chicken sheds for six or seven years and I've seen extra toes and that sort of thing, but never anything like this".

"I though it was a myth."

The six-week-old fully grown chicken from Ingham Enterprises at Cardiff was brought to the Mercury and photographed by Cath Bowen on Thursday, January 8.

Ingham farm manager, Shane Reeves, said the bird should not have been allowed to survive beyond the hatchling stage.

"It should never have even got to that stage,"

http://sl.farmonline.com.au/news/nationalrural/agribusiness-and-general/general/fourlegged-chicken-freak-of-nature-or-science-askew/1409259.aspx?src=enews

The worker is quoted as saying that it would have finished up in the "food chain". One wonders exactly the extent of other nasties that Australia's "majority" population of meat - and fish - eaters is consuming. Don't forget the chemicals in the waterways where fish grow!

Nicky

*It is scientific fact that Australian agriculture is not sustainable;*

Nonsense Nicky. What is a fact is that there is both sustainable
and unsustainable Australian agriculture. You refuse to separate
the two, due to your vegan religion. Jonathon's suggestion,
of constant cultivation and crop growing, is in the unsustainable
category.

My argument about wildlife burning clearly went over your head,
for it was wildlife I was referring to, not domesticated livestock.

Dickie, I have answered your salinity question before, but of course
you ignored it. It is not agriculture that is causing salinity,
but overclearing of land in the wrong places. If you check your
history and facts, then you will learn that farmers were forced to
clear all land as part of their COP blocks. In other words, Govt
not knowing any better, forced them to clear those areas.
The answer is of course, since that salt comes from the ocean
by rainfall over time, it should go back to the ocean.

*Yabby is from the old school.*

Hehe Jonathon, I have been called many things, but never that one :)

If I have a fault, then it is a low tolerance for stupidity and
frankly a great deal of the nonsense preached by the veggie/vegan
movement is exactly that.

You cannot name me a single way of turning dried out old grass,
which poses a fire risk, into great human nutrition, in a more
sustainable way then through herbivores. It is a win-win situation
if done correctly. Now feel free to let the ants eat those herbivores
rather then you eat them, but don't expect others to join your
feelgood exercise, for they will laugh at you.

*Our before assumption, that we are separate from nature and its absolute controller, need challenging and challenging with vigour*

On that I agree with you. Religion and Descartes got it very wrong.
I have never claimed anything else.