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The Forum > General Discussion > Victims of police shootings...

Victims of police shootings...

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I've witnesses a similar situation decribed by Gibo, although this was from the point of view of a civilian.
I used to live in one of Sydney's roughest suburbs, and two neighbours were having a punch up in the street. Just by chance a police car turned into the street and two officers attempted to break up the fight. All of a sudden about 15 neighbours all started abusing the Police and were attacking them. I called 000 and about 4 more police cars turned up, and it was for a while a full scale riot. I even took a few photographs, I was leaving the area anyway and needed a reminder of why I was leaving.
Police have a very difficult job to do, and need to remain calm in very difficult circumstances. I don't think I could do it.
As I was moving I volunteered as a witness. The main ringleaders pleaded guitly, but one woman who assulted a police officer pleaded not guilty and I testified at her trial. She basically got a slap on the wrist, but due to my statement she withdrew her complaints against the Police.
Posted by Steel Mann, Wednesday, 17 December 2008 7:35:10 AM
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Steel Mann from your comments,

reminds me of MacQuaries Fields (2005) and the Redfern riots, when the aboriginal adolescent was cycling away from police and impaled himself on railings...

The rights of criminals, miscreants and those with an over developed sense of self-entitlement to pursue civil disorder and public offence seem to be vocally supported, whilst those same lawless elements trample the rights of the law abiding (to peaceful and quiet enjoyment of our cities) under foot.
Posted by Col Rouge, Wednesday, 17 December 2008 8:21:14 AM
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"1 bullet or 10, the police shoot until the offender is no longer in a position to threaten."

So, Paul.L, after the first bullet to the chest, do you reckon the youngster was still in a position to threaten? As usual, your post was a masterful piece of maximal hyperbole.
Posted by RobP, Wednesday, 17 December 2008 9:19:59 AM
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A 3-4% of our population have mental problems and at least 1 time in their life they are very dangerous! Do you mean we have to kill them?
What about the mental hospitals? How many persons with mental problems have killed every day in the Hospitals? No one!
Why in the mental Hospitals do not kill the persons with huge mental problems but the police killed a 15 years old person with mental problems?
Is not Police's duty to protect our lives, even from our selves? Is not Police's duty to protect even the lives from persons with mental problems? YES ! Why the police men did not do everything to protect their lives and young's life?
Australia, as most civilized countries, is against the death penalty, even for the worst criminals. BUT IF WE ARE AGAINST THE DEATH PENALTY EVEN FOR THE WORST KILLERS THEN WHAT WE COULD THINK FOR THE KILLING OF A YOUNG PERSON WHO A MOMENT GET OUT OF HIS CONTROL AND THREATENED TO KILL OTHER PEOPLE?
THE YOUNG PERSON NEEDED HELP, UNDERSTANDING, SUPPORT, A SMILE, A GOOD WORD ! What did the police men do? they kill him! Is it a professional behave? NO!
Antonios Symeonakis
Adelaide
Posted by ASymeonakis, Wednesday, 17 December 2008 4:24:55 PM
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Rstuart,

Here is the link. http://www.theage.com.au/national/two-knives-three-alarmed-police-officers-and-a-scared-little-boy-lies-dead-in-seconds-20081212-6xnm.html?page=-1

An officer was cornered in a stair well and could not retreat.

The officers had already tried two doses of capsicum spracy, and the senior policeman on site broke the rules by firing a warning shot into the ground to get the boy to stop. He still did not comply.

Apparently the kid had made phone calls to the police telling them that he was going to kill people. He also said to a policeman “kill me because I’m going to kill you”.

“Just minutes after Tyler was shot dead on Thursday, police received a call from a relative saying he was missing and looking for a confrontation with police.” http://www.theage.com.au/national/two-knives-three-alarmed-police-officers-and-a-scared-little-boy-lies-dead-in-seconds-20081212-6xnm.html?page=-1

This was an almost clear cut case of suicide by cop.

Boethius,

I wonder whether you would be prepared to get within striking distance of someone insane wielding two knives and threatening to kill you? Furthermore, would you stand by and watch as your wife, son or brother found themselves backed into a corner?

Clearly there are large numbers of people on this discussion who don’t have any idea about the facts on the night. They also tend to be the people who don’t have a clue about guns and policing, and have probably never been involved in a violent confrontation in their lives.

Let me state this clearly for all those who don’t understand.

Once a person’s life is in imminent danger, the police have a responsibility to ensure they protect that person, whether they are a member of the public or a policeman. When the knife wilding maniac cornered the constable the options for dealing with him became limited to “him or us”. A bullet wound to the leg would not stop such a person in a charge over 5m. And that’s assuming that under the circumstances they could guarantee a hit, which is impossible

TBC
Posted by Paul.L, Wednesday, 17 December 2008 4:25:26 PM
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Police investigations showed that officers shooting at targets shooting back, missed at least half the time. If they were forced to shoot at the legs of a person charging them with a deadly weapon the miss rate would be much higher, and the proportion of dead and injured police would rise dramatically. http://pqx.sagepub.com/cgi/reprint/9/3/303

A US study found that “research consistently indicates that police officers who use deadly force miss their intended targets far more often than they hit them” http://pqx.sagepub.com/cgi/reprint/9/3/303

The problem isn’t that they can’t shoot stationary targets accurately. It’s just VERY difficult to be accurate when you are being shot at, or rushed at by offenders wielding knives, and your life depends upon it.

“Any experienced police officer knows the potentially devastating effects of even justified shootings by police—loss of life and bereavement, risks to an officer’s career, the government’s liability to civil suits, strained police-community relations, rioting and all the economic and social crises that attend major civil disturbances.” http://pqx.sagepub.com/cgi/reprint/9/3/303

Shooting at legs etc is NOT a valid tactic for police officers to undertake. If they are not in imminent danger they should retreat, if they are in imminwent danger they MUST be allowed to defend themselves, their colleagues and the public to the extent required

RobP,

Do you have any idea how long it took the police to fire those ten shots? Do you have any idea how far away from police the boy was? Ten shots from 3 policeman can easily take less than 2 seconds, especially considering that 10 shots is only three shots for two officers and four for the other, and that they would have been concurrent, not consecutive. Unless the bullets hit the boys T-Zone it’s decidedly possible that the boy was still moving forward after the first second. The idea that the police should try one shot and then wait and see if it worked is specious. They shot until they felt he no longer posed an imminent threat
Posted by Paul.L, Wednesday, 17 December 2008 4:26:55 PM
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