Dear foxy and gang,

How police? How many bullets? A psycho 15yo with KNIVES?
R0bert is right it is too soon and not enough info to be definitive.
However, my experience is that young policemen tend to let the uniform go to their heads and assert their authority to hard.
I have been involved albeit some years ago with a family standoff and the issue pushed the stressed out person into a corner whereby he felt he had to stand and fight.
However, an older sgt. took over he moved the police back and then calmly began to evaluate the situation giving the protagonist an honourable way out. After 4hours the sgts 40 minutes resolved the siege.
My thoughts are that with numerous policemen there, the boy wasn’t going anywhere. I also wonder if there should be a designated shooter with a procedure of firing 1 shot calling for to give up then 2nd shooter makes the second shop.
In short there are training and procedural issues. The same issue comes to mind with the psychological patient at Bondi.

Foxy

From what I understand it makes no sense at all as to why multiple shots were fired. It seems that one shot was all that was needed and that the police had plenty of time to take a second or third shot if the first one or two missed or if the first one didn’t stop the kid.

I get the impression that there really is a pack mentality here. It seems most likely that as soon as one officer fired, the others just immediately and instinctively did the same, regardless of whether there was a perceived need to do so or not …which was the critically wrong thing to do and which surely amounts to grossly excessive force for which there should be murder charges laid.

This discussion is supposed to be about public servants killing the public? Isn't it?
And killing a member of the public who was a minor?
I have heard the hard comments - excuses by hard police men on the ABC news about this.
The pools of vomit are still there beside my radio.
They'll remain there to remind me that some Mother's son has been killed at age FIFTEEN in this alleged Democracy.

Why bother analysing murder. The lad was a minor. Beyond acceptance/reason.
Why seek cause and effect.
Why not just go back to the DaneLaw - give this son's mother an account of the situation then ask her to attend a forum where all those who killed her son are held at the State's pleasure before her -
Let her balance whatever excuses might be offered by police, the pleadings of the perpetrators, and the advice of her family.
Let this happen where she is legally entitled to take the same weapons used to kill her son and permit her, or her champion, or the local vet, the option to take those weapons up and likewise liquidate those who murdered her son.
This has gone too far and too long. If governance is permitted to kill children then so must those governed demand retribution.

It is much more complex than non farmer would have us believe.
I am a known supporter of the police force.
I am also known to put the boot in if its called for.
Some talking about police leave truth behind, you see them crawl to police and call them names after they walk away.
I have been victim in such cases, seen my workmates fawn over an officer on the roadside, playing with his over extended ego.
I liking the bloke but knowing what was to come stayed away, he hates me still for being the one man out of his fan club.
he drove away and every one of his fans called him murderer!
Such is the interface most have with police.
Victorian police commit murder, they have done so far too many times, courts rule always for them not justice.
While they once found NSW police crossed the border to commit great crimes Victorian police are no less more corrupt than any in Australia.
In no way unlike the blind rat pack mentality that drives most truck drivers, some, bike riders police justify murder or kicking the hell out of prisoners too often we the group can not be judged type of thing
Never for get, for an instant a good cop is worth far more than we can ever pay them, a bad cop? nothing.
The 15 year old could have been alive if he had only one leg? better than dead.
Murder! in the name of self defense? if our cops can not hit a leg from that distance they can not be trusted with a gun.

Non farmer, Belly and others.

Belly is right, in so much as it's more complex than an armchair observer can assess. Except in generalities.
Notwithstanding that my piece was supposed to highlight a number of issues.

Ludwig pointed out … group mentality and indeed this is a contributing factor.
The interesting bit is WHY given they’re supposedly trained for lethal situations? I would propose that it may be because:
• The general public’s attitude to laws and therefore law enforcement in general. If we’re the subject of their attention the response is invariably one of denial, hostility and excuses. This MUST have the effect of making them feel separate/isolated. Hence the ‘on THE job’ and or the siege mentality of “the brotherhood”. There is an absence of positive feedback something we all need/want if we are to maintain our humanity.
• Training inadequacies most of police pray they never have to face a potential lethal situation because they aren’t adequately trained or prepared. No ageism is intended but a 21 yo with 12/18 months training are generally not competent to make those types of judgements. Science shows that in general the judgement part of the brain is still developing at 25ish. The army they rely on indoctrinated discipline (lacking in the police) and still they get screw ups.
• The rules/procedures they have are inadequate they are too general and therefore their actions are ‘black letter’ legal although may not necessarily righteous.
• Because of all of the above there is a lack of ideal applicants for the job hence standards are ‘loose’ eg that hysterical PW who identified herself as such at a meeting about Fergusson. She lived 14 Ks away yet ‘stated that she didn’t know what to tell her 3yo’ Rules dictate that this was a minor breach of ‘police discipline’ hence she got away with Police union support.
There is no one failure as such but a series there of, neither is this a complete list. I am not sanctioning such action only that the 'blame' is a little harder to place than it would seem.

rehctub,
Again shows his clear head. We were not there and until we know facts we ought not say anything imo.
I do know he was shot in the legs several times but even that failed to stop him. Then he managed to corner a cop.

Perhaps had he not been off his face on drugs and running around threatening to kill people the police might not have been put in this position.
So where were the parents while their son was going on like this?
Cops do a rotten job for little thanks.

This thread is an example as to how much thanks they get.

Just imagine if this 15 year old youth had managed to carry out his threat and kill a person.
Oh THEN it would be different. Then we would read police fail to protect the public...

Belly btw you ought to be careful about what you say.
You cant say Melbourne police commit murder etc.. You could be sued and loose your house. You can say " Can Police Commit murder and get away with it?
So you can hint to get your message across but careful with broad statements.

NO I am not having a go at you either. Just dont want to see you loose your house through a litigation and I assure you it happens and they don`t mind the costs to get people!
All comes from the tax payers dollars...