Cont’d

Finally, the stats show numbers escalate if the woman is pregnant and are also high if children are in residence.

Yes, I know some women abuse children too. But this topic is headed:
"Violence against women and absolute statements."

NOT

"Violence against men and absolute statements."

Start a topic about violence against men but remember that most violence against men is committed by other men. Something I have pointed out before along with the fact that laws are set by a majority of men - not women. Women are still a minority in places of power. Not that I am saying things would be better - just that both men and women would be equally accountable.

“A 1995 study from the University of Sydney's Institute of Criminology which shows that the most common form of violence is committed by men against men -- on the streets, in pub brawls, gay bashing and school yard bullying. Institute figures also reveal that men commit 91% of homicides, 90% of assaults and nearly all sexual assaults and robberies with violence.

Male violence against men and women is the real story"

“As men, we have an obligation and responsibility to look at male violence, not only for the sake of women, but for our own health and well-being. The truth is that men's inability to talk, to admit weakness, to disclose vulnerability, or to feel comfortable in a non-dominant role are successful tactics of power, but they're also our undoing. But the terrible reality of male violence seems a pill too bitter for some men to swallow."

Michael Flood

Fractelle:"There is not a single poster here who could be remotely described as a 'feminazi' or 'man-hater' yet these terms are trotted out regularly by HRS, Usual Suspect, Runner, Antiseptic to name a few"

I can't recall ever using the term "feminazi" and I've confined my use of the term "man-hater" to those obviously afflicted with the disease.

What I've seen demonstrated here, time after time, is the pack-bullying behaviour of women. Another thread has a tag team effort of three women, all of whom have contributed nothing other than abuse of myself, including demanding that I provide my identity. My failure to comply with their demands has lead to all sorts of abuse.

I've seen similar pack-bullying behaviour time after time in real life when women think they can get away with it. Ask any young man and he'll tell you all about the pack-bullying behaviour of groups of young women "playing to the crowd".

On the other hand, I've not seen anything from the men here that could remotely fit your claim of an attempt to "silence" you or anyone else. All that any of us have asked is that the discussion should be inclusive of the violence against men, which creates approximately 3 times as many victims as violence against women.

I still repudiate your claim of a qualitative difference between the two and your attempt to claim "ownership" of the children on behalf of women. In my experience, domestic dominance games are often initiated by women, who then cry foul if the situation deteriorates. The fact that men are physically stronger does not give women carte blanche to be abusive or to attempt to coerce them. In the heat of the moment, things happen that are often regretted, yet it is inevitably the male who is held accountable, while the female is deemed to be not merely blameless, but hapless. How degrading for everyone involved.

Fractelle, the title is relevant because the thread was opened in response to the lengths the PM went to in his statements referenced at the start of the thread. It's moved on somewhat from the original point but that happens. Part of the original point was why only speak about violence against women, rather speak against all violence. If the situation warrants a gender specific comment find the opportunity elsewhere to cover the rest.

The issue of rates of violence was pushed into the discussion because of the view that because the body count of women is higher men should get nothing (my phrasing but thats how it comes across). I'd rather we spend less time on body counts, definitions of DV etc and work to stop all violence but the message from those supporting the status quo seems to be because they define DV in a certain way they can then say that almost all DV is committed by men against women and therefore nothing should be done to stop violence by women against men and even trying to is somehow silencing women.

It's a winner takes it all approach that hurts everybody involved. It leaves men who are subject to violence by partners with nowhere to turn except to suffer in silence or try and sort it out for themselves. It gets women hurt when a partner does sort it out for himself and it leaves kids exposed to violence that maybe could be stopped.

I doubt very much that campaigns will ever have much impact on the perpetrators, they may though change the expectations of victims, friends and family, support services and the like. Just as women are much more able to seek support when they have an abusive partner thanks to the public profile of violence against women I'd like to see men having the same opportunities regardless of which set of statistics you happen to prefer.

R0bert

Pynch: 'there are depression and suicide campaigns directed at men specifically'
Usual Suspect: Please show evidence of this?

Campaigns for men:

http://www.smh.com.au/news/depression/campaign-to-tackle-rural-depression/2006/06/29/1151174308787.html

Some work by Beyond Blue on depression (several campaigns) and some directed at men in rural areas:

http://www.beyondblue.org.au/index.aspx?link_id=105.903 - range of posters and do you recall the adverts featuring Gary McDonald and Jeff Kennett:

http://www.theage.com.au/news/depression/success-v-stress/2006/06/28/1151174265286.html

http://www2.youthbeyondblue.com/index.aspx?link_id=9.234&oid=773

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=142714

get a Life - from Beyond Blue

http://www.theage.com.au/news/depression/campaign-to-tackle-rural-depression/2006/06/29/1151174308787.html

http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache:9K6dQ7H_DcMJ:www.rdaa.com.au/uploaded_documents/Beyond%2520Blue%2520and%2520RDAA%2520launch%2520--%2520media%2520release%2520--%2520March%25202007%E2%80%A6.pdf+campaigns+for+men+and+depression&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=4&gl=au

http://au.movember.com/outcomes/content/Financial-Summary/ lists some of the mens health campaigns that organization supports.

NSW Health and Movember:

http://www.sesiahs.health.nsw.gov.au/news_and_events/2007/20071115_Movember.asp

The Australian Psychological Society lists resources on men's issues:

http://www.groups.psychology.org.au/mmig/resources/

Campaign in 2007 by the AMA on men's health:
prostate cancer, diabetes, testicular cancer, bowel cancer, overweight and obesity, skin cancer, heart disease, and depression.

http://www.amaq.com.au/index.php?action=view&view=16271&pid=

Campaign by MISTA - the Men's Health Information Services Tasmania Alliance:
http://www.farmpoint.tas.gov.au/farmpoint.nsf/news/0AF4E8D3F62EC033CA2574320080D0B1

Listing of more than a dozen campaigns and sources of help for men, as well as generic and overseas sites:
by Mensline, including: Andrology Australia; Mens Peer Health; MoodGym and so on:
http://www.menslineaus.org.au/Links.aspx?Catg=General&HeadId=1

MENDS:
http://www.mends.com.au/default.htm

Campaign by Lifeline targeted at men's issues:
http://www.readthesigns.com.au/

Fathersandsons - including a Utube short re: support group and emotional wellbeing:
http://www.fathersandsons.com.au/

Mensline for young men:
http://www.menslineaus.org.au/Youth/Default.aspx

"Mensline Australia offers professional support 24 hours a day, seven days a week for men with family and relationship issues, including men concerned about the effect that depression may be having on their relationships. The service is non-judgemental, confidential and anonymous."

Blokes Day local project and booklet - media promotion:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/02/22/2169896.htm

Life education film for teenaged boys:

"We know that guys - generally right throughout the lifespan - don't talk about emotional issues," he said.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/12/13/2117568.htm

Mens Sheds:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/06/11/1947921.htm

Some 2008 Funding initiatives for suicide prevention strategy and specialist programs for men:
http://www.theage.com.au/national/mens-health-campaign-20080608-2nkq.html

Department of Health and Ageing - Livingisforeveryone Fact Sheet focusing on men's needs:

http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache:AisVDhDJ8QoJ:www.livingisforeveryone.com.au/DownloadDocument.ashx%3FDocumentID%3D52+campaigns+for+men+and+suicide&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=6&gl=au

cont'd

cont'd

Suicide Prevention Australia deals with issues concerning male suicide as a priority area. The site lists several programs and links to programs including state initiatives:

"Continuing its commitment to community awareness and public health advocacy, Suicide Prevention Australia (SPA) today launched the first of a series of position statements addressing priority areas of suicide prevention.

The position statements, Suicide Prevention and Capacity Building in Australian Indigenous Communities and Men and Suicide: Future Directions, build on SPA’s existing events-based advocacy agenda and propose a clearly defined set of guiding principles and recommendations for action and change.

Primary to these is a call for the development of a national Health and Well Being Strategy for Men.... "

http://www.suicidepreventionaust.org/Media.aspx
http://www.suicidepreventionaust.org/Resources.aspx (DVD; National Forums; National Conference highlighting men's issues).

- and there are others like Ozhelp - an award winning campaign for men in the building and construction industries that started after 3 apprentices committed suicide: http://www.ozhelp.org.au/ - and various state level and indigenous community programs.

As I said, one doesn't see women whinging that the focus is on men, yet something like 20% of completed suicides are of women. In fact, many of those programs have female facilitators and advocates involved, such as Ozhelp, and in work at the community level. I call that good community caring.

R0bert

I've had enough. Not once have I denied that a percentage of men are abused. In fact here and on other threads I have provided links for men seeking further information and/or help.

I don't understand what you are getting at here anymore. I have spoken about my own experiences, I have acknowledged on many discussion threads that men get a raw deal as well. Just what do you want? To say that women are as physically violent as men?

I can't say that because it isn't true.

I can say that women do use psychological and verbal tactics either to dominate or to defend themselves. But so do men.

Why was it so wrong for Rudd to speak out against violence perpetrated against women?

Why does this fact bring on so much outrage from men? Not outrage where men decry this violence, but outrage at women who dare to say yes, I lived in terror in my own home. And yes, it is about time violence against women and children stopped. Aren't you concerned that the incidence of violence is greatest against pregnant women?

I feel utterly wrecked, I put in so much effort in my previous posts and still you want .... what? This is precisely why I loathe posting on these threads, trying to articulate in a manner that doesn't offend anyone and still being demanded to justify myself.

ENOUGH!