phillips:"let's get "honest". Close to all domestic violence is committed by MALES"

So much for honesty. At least your record's intact in that regard.

samsung,

'something very strange and defensive about a "few" of the males'

'to blame for me raping/bashing her". I get the feeling there may be a few of those types here, to varying degrees'

What a cowardly little post. If you're going to cast disgusting aspersions on people at least have the courage to name them. I notice you don't cast any aspersions on Celivia or Veronika who have agreed with a lot of what myself and robert have said. Your post is extremely offensive.

Notice none of the males here you denigrate so much are asking yourself, fractelle, pynchme what have they got to hide when they are so afraid to have even the tiniest discussion of violence by women in domestic disputes in the campaign.

'Close to all domestic violence is committed by MALES. Ask ANY police officer '

From
http://www.news.com.au/comments/0,23600,24397363-5007146,00.html

'As a police officer for 18+ years I have taken as many DV Orders for men as I have for women. The women are very shocked when given the paperwork, thinking the DV rules only applied to men. DV is certainly a huge problem and I never think of it as female victims only. They are just as bad sadly. '

'I went to the police to report the abuse and was told that "we know it happens but let's face it you should be able to take care of yourself"'

'My grandfather was in a terribly violent marriage suffering abuse day after day...There is no way he would go anywhere for help. He was stuck between social mores of sticking up for his wife (so I couldn't say anything), and 'being the man of the house'. When I raised it with him privately he asked, somewhat helplessly, 'well what am I to do?' I hate these 'Violence against women, Australia says No' campaigns...Not because it isn't a very serious issue... But I can't help thinking is it ever ok to be violent without serious provocation? That campaign just served to reinforce those stereotypes that we so desperately need to challenge.'

Antiseptic, if you define Domestic Violence as violence by men against women in a spousal relationship then samsung is telling the truth. If we are talking about the kind of ongoing systematic controlling abuse of the other party then I've not seen independant research either way. If it's just about physical strength then probably, if it's about the ability to make cutting comments, to isolate a partner and wage a campaign of emotional harm in the home against them then I very much doubt it.

If we are talking about DV the way it's portrayed in the governments campaigns where it's an unwelcome question, it's an intrusive comment on choice of clothes, it's a raised voice, it's a shove or even a hit then samsung is on a whole different topic and will need to keep repeating his mantra to himself "close to all domestic violence is committed by MALES: ...".

It's simple, those who want to only focus on a particular form of DV, those who think point scoring against males, those who don't care about the male victims, those who don't care about the women who are hurt unnecessarily will support a 100% genderised portrayal of DV in government campaigns.

Those who want DV reduced regardless of it's type or severity, those who don't think any victim should be left to rot because of their gender, those who think we could do better by those women who hit and get hurt when they are hit back will support a message against all spousal violence and then work on the best way to manage that message so that the various needs are met.

Fractelle, I'm normally a big fan of yours but your claim that certain men are trying to silence women is insulting to those of us calling for some response to violence against men. If it's specific individuals please identify them and where those attempts to silence women have occurred. I don't wish to hurt you further but neither do I think it appropriate to be silenced because the topic is hurtful to you.

R0bert

Thank you Samsung for your input.

Celivia, Fractelle and Veronika thanks too.

These discussions on DV affect me terribly. I've worked in major public hospitals in ICU. I've looked after a number of women with totally fractured pelvises, smashed faces requiring ventilation, multiple serious internal injuries. I've seen their men sobbing at their beds: saying 'sorry, sorry, I love you.' It is distressing how many of these women do not want to press charges even when strongly supported by attending police. It is distressing to see how much they want to believe their own responsibility for suffering these injuries.

In all my years, I've looked after one man, one, with serious injuries. He had multiple stab wounds. His wife was dead though, she didn't survive the fight.

It is distressing how many men still think that provocation is a defence for serious violence.

In criminal law, the amount of violence that a person uses against another to 'protect oneself' has to be of the same level. Beating a person into hospital because another person was verbally offensive or threw objects around doesn't work in a pub brawl.

The argument that a woman should not get verbally abusive, or throw plates or what not, because she is likely to then get a hiding, makes my skin crawl.

Women are critised for staying in violent homes. Why didn't she leave? Why does a man stay with a violent woman? Why is it understandable that he beats her up, but not when a woman does not leave a violent partner?

There is no excuse for offensive behaviour, verbal abuse or taunting. Just because there isn't, doesn't mean that the perpetrator of that behviour 'deserves' what is coming to them.

Antiseptic's comment: <I've never understood why some people consider intimate partner violence to be somehow qualitatively different to being bashed in the street .> demonstrates that he has no idea what DV is about. He'd have no problem playing happy couples with somebody who bashes him up and have sex with them next week after saying 'sorry hon, I got a bit emotional'.

R0bert:
"Fractelle, I'm normally a big fan of yours but your claim that certain men are trying to silence women is insulting to those of us calling for some response to violence against men. If it's specific individuals please identify them and where those attempts to silence women have occurred."

If anyone has been following the DV threads they will know who has and who hasn't been denigrating female posters. I am not going to write "except for R0bert, or SJF" every freakin' time I post. I assume most readers to have the intelligence to note who is abusive and who isn't.

There is not a single poster here who could be remotely described as a 'feminazi' or 'man-hater' yet these terms are trotted out regularly by HRS, Usual Suspect, Runner, Antiseptic to name a few. As a result I don't even read these posters anymore, if they do write something valid, too bad, because of the abuse I protect myself from them, by not responding (silenced) to them. I have tried using humour in the past, but why can't I just say what I think?

I should not have to preface EVERYTHING I say with: "but this happens to a small percentage of men too" or "I am not a man hater" or "I know men get a rough deal in the family courts too" BEFORE I even express my POV or valid experience. My abusive ex-husband used verbal abuse and psychological games even more than physical violence, as a result I am sensitive to techniques used to trivialise the female experience.

Do I have to write the above EVERYTIME I post? DV is a huge problem, just because women actually mention it doesn't mean they are insulting ALL men.

If so, then I am being silenced.

Cont’d

Cont’d

Violence happens: For men it is more likely to be outside the home and for women it is more likely to be within the home - a place which is supposed to be where we are safe.

Consider the following from the ABS:

VIOLENCE BY CURRENT PARTNERS

People who experienced violence from their current partner were more likely to experience physical, rather than sexual, violence.
• Since the age of 15, 0.9% (68,100) of men and 2.1% (160,100) of women experienced current partner violence
VIOLENCE BY PREVIOUS PARTNERS

Since the age of 15, people were more likely to have experienced violence from a previous partner than from a current partner.
• 4.9% (367,300) of men experienced violence from a previous partner compared to 15% (1,135,500) of women

• 32% (368,300) of women and 40% (146,500) of men who had ever experienced violence by their previous partner said there had only been one incident

• 59% (667,900) of women who experienced violence by a previous partner were pregnant at some time during the relationship; of these, 36% (239,800) reported that violence occurred during a pregnancy and 17% (112,000) experienced violence for the first time when they were pregnant

• 61% (822,500) of persons who experienced violence by a previous partner reported that they had children in their care at some time during the relationship and 36% (489,400) said that these children had witnessed the violence.

http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/abs@.nsf/mf/4906.0

Now the figures are interesting at least twice as many women are abused as are men by their current partner.

More violence occurs by an ex-partner.

For women it is three times the number than for men.

Interestingly in cases of only one single event of violence, women outnumber men 32% compared to 40% for men. A small but significant statistic - but as it was only one time, it can be considered that women after being violent do not continue with it, whereas men are more likely to continue with violence. I think this subtlety will be lost on certain people.

Con'td