I should have learned by now that it is pointless flogging a dead horse, but somehow I'm addicted to it where Boaz is concerned.

Your primary skill on this forum, Boaz, is not your ability to present your case with clarity.

Nor is it the intelligent articulation of a defensible intellectual stance.

Come to that, nor is it spelling, grammar, logic, tolerance or humour, but it is quite easy to overlook those.

Your greatest achievement is without doubt to avoid answering direct questions.

You simply duck the ones that you don't like, as if the questions did not exist. Once, you may recall, you even changed your signature to avoid answering.

All that is a preamble that I hope will shame you into at least completing one such task. A forlorn hope, but here goes.

Does the camp allow Muslim groups to book there?

If so, how is this defensible in comparison to their attitude towards gays?

If not, how is it defensible at all, given that it is a commercial operation?

While you are in the spirit of treading this unfamiliar path of actually answering a question, there are a few others that you have ignored too, that you might like to follow up on.

Have a great day.

Dear Polycarp,

I'll keep it simple.

The only purity that mattered to Christ
was purity of heart.

"It is not what goes into the mouth that
defiles a person, but it is what comes out
of the mouth that defiles..." (Mat 15:10, 18-20).

Christ was talking about evil intentions,
false witness, slander, these are what defile
a person. Evil thoughts.

Christ was not impressed with externals.
He looked into the heart.

"The only thing that counts is faith
working through love." (Galations 5:6).

Christ objected to false religious showings
such as praying in front of everybody,
putting a lot of money into the collection
so others will notice, exhibitions of piety,
soliciting in his name but not practising
his teachings...

"People honour me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me." (Mark 7:6).

It is immoral behaviour that is condemned,
be it practiced by
heterosexuals or homosexuals alike.

And by your behaviour, you shall be judged.

Take care.

HOOORAY :) Foxy is fighting the good fight..and in so doing she suddenly realizes that the Lord IS interested in purity of heart...

and that those without it... were.. rejected. Such as the Pharisees.

The inclusion/welcome of the woman in adultery was postscripted with SIN NO MORE..... I hope you notice that. If she went back to the bed of her adulterous lover.. do you think Jesus would 'commend' her behavior?

Now at least we are getting somewhere. Foxy.. I gather your point would be that homosexuals can be pure of heart... right? I have to put a position statement there which will show where I stand.

A person who "believes" they are homosexual.. would be pure in heart if they said "I know I have these feelings..but because I know they are wrong/sinful..I will not act on them" and they would seek to repent of the mental side of that also. There are many single women on the mission field.. who I'll guarantee have 'lustful' thoughts about blokes.. I met a few. But they don't 'act' on those thoughts no matter how strong the thoughts are.

PERICLES..I'm sorry..I didn't notice your question.
Absolutely NO..such a camp would not accomodate Muslims. Not a chance. But let me qualify. If...they were part of a school group..which was not 'Muslim' they would be allowed in I'm sure..
In the same way that a homosexual student within a school group would be able to go there. As long as the primary purpose and identity of that group was NOT "Muslim" nor "Homosexual" in nature.

Clear enough?

By the way.. your constand ad hominems are a waste of time.
-You can't spell
-Your grammar sucks
-You can't argue
etc..

Look in a mirror old son.

Of course you didn't, Boaz.

>>PERICLES..I'm sorry..I didn't notice your question.<<

Even now you missed half of it.

"...how is it defensible at all, given that it is a commercial operation?"

The camp is a taxpayer-subsidized business that discriminates against a law-abiding section of the community. Once again I ask, on what basis do you consider this to be defensible behaviour?

But it gets weirder.

>>If...they were part of a school group..which was not 'Muslim' they would be allowed in I'm sure... in the same way that a homosexual student within a school group would be able to go there<<

That doesn't make a great deal of sense, does it Boaz? Do you remember saying...

>>For me personally, (and for any serious Christian I believe), the thought that I, or my children could be forced to sleep in a bed used for homosexual acts is brain exploding.<<?

So you no longer mind sleeping in that bed...

"...As long as the primary purpose and identity of that group was NOT "Muslim" nor "Homosexual" in nature."

To be absolutely clear on this, you are proposing that this camp could be occupied week in, week out, by a succession of gay groups and Muslim groups, on the sole proviso that they didn't identify themselves as such.

Would that be correct, Boaz?

Just to recap, there are two questions here:

1. On what basis do you consider the discrimination against Muslims by a taxpayer-subsidised business, to be defensible behaviour?

2. Is it correct to say that you don't actually object to gays and Muslims, so long as they keep it a secret?

>>By the way.. your constand ad hominems are a waste of time. <<

Not for me, Boaz. They stop me from letting your constant holier-than-thou arrogance get to me. Keeps me sane.

Interesting set of questions Pericles.

There are many nuances you are missing though.. hence your questions.

How can it be 'commericial' ? if it was there would be 'profit'...and unless you can show that there is..... then I don't see how you arrive at that conclusion.
It certainly is "viable".. and if profit were the motive, then I guess they could make some, but it would be structured very differently.

My guess is.. at the moment the income is just repaying debt, and adding to facilities. I don't see how this is taxpayer subsidized?
Can you be more specific as to 'how' it is "subsidized"?
The only tax not being paid is 'company tax'. All employees pay normal income tax.

I absolutely do not recognize the 'law abiding' in relation to your "therefore don't discriminate" because you know as well as I do that the law allows genuine religous conviction as an exemption.
You also know that todays law was brought about by very strong and very anti 'traditional values/Church' lobbying and activism and it is still going on. The 'rainbow coalition' tries to take the communion at Catholic Churches and as far as I know they are not allowed by the Church.

Your hypothetical is too far out there Pericles. Such a thing would not happen. It would be evident in the correspondence prior to the booking being confirmed. It would not surprise me if they have a set of 'guidelines' which indicate their position..but I don't know.

Question 1 Relies on a questionable idea (taxpayer subsidy)But discrimination against anyone is legitimate if based on genuine religious conviction.

Question 2 God's love is available to all.. forgiveness depends on repentance.(Including yours) If an individual homosexual person was seeking help.. he is most welcome to join the fellowship there.

Dear Polycarp,

Again, you missed the point.

Christ and other New Testament leaders taught
by word and example not to be self-righteous
or discriminate against those you consider
to be "sinners." Mat 9:10-13. Luke 7:36-48, 18:9-14.

"Do not judge, or you too will be judged.
For in the same way you judge others,
you will be judged, and with the measure you use,
it will be measured to you..." Mat. 7:1-2.

Finally, you cannot afford to let your
feelings or fears about homosexuality blind you to
Christ's commandment to "Love your neighbour
as yourself." Mat 22:36-39.

It is false to honour Christ with your lips
only, when your heart is far from His teachings.

"The only thing that counts is faith working
through love." Galations 5:6.

Love your neighbour, leave the judging to God.