What I meant, Austin Powerless, is that arming civilians to take care of defence needs is pointless and quite likely dangerous.

I was not suggesting that the guns clubbers who actually know how to use the weapon are dangerous in the sense that they might accidentally shoot someone etc.

What I was suggesting is that without military training, a bunch of civilians with rifles has virtually NO military benefit. Those who have military training will fit straight into the military system in the event of an attack on Australia. The rest are more likely to get themselves into trouble than they are to get anyone out of it

In any case, against any modern invasion force (and no other kind is ever going to make it to the Australian Mainland) what good would SLR’s or Steyrs do? What a militia type force would really need is mines, laser or other target indicators and ATGM’s like the javelin, which would require real training so as not to be a complete liability in the field.

None of our likely opponents would suffer a insurgent style uprising and they would not abide by the Geneva convention. Group punishment would be the rule and suspects would be shot, not tried in court. There would be no room for guerillas to operate.

TBC

Cont

The Swiss are compulsorily trained in the military for a year. I have no problem giving guns to people who’ve done a year’s military training. But the reason the Germans didn’t invade Switzerland had nothing to do with the fact that the Swiss kept a fairly strong home guard. The Swiss did the banking, if you’ll recall. They also played up their “Neutrality” which is Swiss for “war profiteer”.

Let me get this straight, you were trained by the army on both the SLR and the Steyr and you say most people who were, agree that the SLR is the better weapon to deploy to a warzone with, is that right?

Funny that the Army doesn’t think so. Certainly the US and Australian armies have seen the need for larger caliber rifles than the 5.56 Steyr and M4/M16, particularly in Afghanistan. The Aussie have issued the sr25’s to some of our special forces and the Americans are working on the M468. However, no one's thinking about bringing back the 50 year old SLR semi automatic rifle that I know of.

I'm a veteran and a retired copper. In my opinion this country is TOTALLY unprepared to engage ANY enemy of even moderate proportion.

True, our military assets are quite well trained and disciplined. However, we are unfortunately so very meagre on the ground.

The only realistic chance (at the risk of sounding pragmatic), that we may have in mounting an attainable defence is, the size, logestical dynamics, and climatic conditions that prevail in this vast continent. Perhaps our peculiar geographic characteristic/s, could materially inhibit a potentially advancing invader ?

Regrettably, through various Governments' inaction, we are really quite vulnerable. In fact, we're manifestly unprotected and assailable, should a foe of even moderate size wish to invade.

I agree about arming civilians. Our defence force is the way to go. If that is breached then an armed population won't do squat.

I don't think an armed resistance is completely useless, however it will inevitably be lead by members of the armed forces once it disintegrates. I don't think lack of guns would be a problem. You can always get them from somewhere. Even in a war, money talks. Most countries have a problem of too many guns. Australia is partly immune from that because we share no land borders with dirt poor countries.

Anyway, if it does come down to an armed civilian resistance, it will be training, not guns that is the problem. We could easily arm the population in the dying stages of a losing battle. Training them is a completely different matter.

I was hoping Freediver that the ADD might produce a booklet to hand out to the gun clubbers for the "climate time" of a possible invasion.
Not fifty million pages of dribble but something simple....a do you own homguard if government appears to be collapsing.
The big problem over the years is that the Australian Defence Department has never been really, genuinely, strong or determined about defence.
No guns in the Defence cupboards shows this to be true.
An army sergeant friend once told me that if China ever got down here... there wouldnt be enough ammunition anyway.
The old Brisbane line of last defence, up around Tenterfield NSW I think it has been, has been reportedly moved south to around Newcastle NSW... showing just how serious they are about fighting for their beloved country.
I think that Defence has already conceded to nation, in their hearts, to an asian invader.
Thats why the people must stand up.

The Defence of Australia has always been a job in which the Navy and AirForce have had a leading role.

Since any invasion of Australia requires an amphibious task force, our submarines are our most important, and effective, line of defence. No country in our region has the capability, the aircraft carriers in particular, to project an amphibious task force that could withstand the attentions of our Navy and our AirForce. Only the Americans have that capability, and our subs have, during exercises, been able to take out their aircraft carriers.

Our f-111's have no equal in the region, and our fA-18's have only barely been matched by regional Airforces. But in any case, the new Air Warfare Destroyers and amphibious helicopter assault ships, combined with new AWACS, new P8 Poseidon maritime interdiction, new Tanker refuellers and at least 100 Stealth Fighters, and assisted by our new Abrams heavy tanks, tracked and amoured artillery and rapid cavalry; means will we be a significant foe to ANY armed forces in our region.

When the defence agreements with our allies, the British and Americans and even the New Zealanders are taken into account, no one in their right mind would see Australia as undefended.

Men with rifles are, by far, the least important unit when it comes to the defence of Australia. Anyone who thinks they are going to stop an Chinese type 99 with a rifle should just shoot themselves now and save the Chinese tracks the trouble.