CJ: "P.S. Do you know if the game features flying saucers and/or demons?"

No idea. I doubt it, but I wouldn't be surprised if it included a villainous anti-unsanctioned-sex crusader...

Hi David

I am aware of the strength of your feelings about these issues,but the thing is we can all Google sites about Islam and find some pretty disturbing information but there is equally disturbing information about other Religions including the history of Christianity through the ages. I think you transfer the extreme manifestations of Islam as the norm.

Morality does indeed go in cycles -from the excesses of Nero's Rome to the stringent Victorian times. Scrape the surface a bit through those more conservative times and you will still find immorality (whatever that might be perceived as)present in various forms whether if be oppression of those whose values are different or religious/non-religious figures of authority abusing their position of power and exploiting the fear of retribution.

As for Bohemian Grove well this is nothing new - large groups of powerful men exploiting their advantages and power to do as they please. Same story different time, different group.

Christianity is not going to fix these problems David - I am not sure what will. More equitable economic systems might go a lot further than Religion in this regard.

David “The issue here is not about 'sex' or our sexual side, but of its distortion (by our values) in the shameless public act of simulating.... remember now.. RAPE.”

Somethings are just bad taste. Censorship is no answer

I do not support them. I do what anyone with a sense of discernment should do, ignore them and leave the supposed “artists” to the ignominy of seeing a lot of backs turned.

“I'm thinking your 'wowser alarm'”

Actually, I do not have one

You are entitled to your view and I am pleased to hear you express it. I can counter it with reason and maybe will even influence you to change your opinion.

The sex-man-woman-marriage thing is totally wasted on me, I have been married twice but can count a few more lovers than that. Again we are talking about personal values which clearly differ but are equally valid.

“one of ur daughters working part time at some 'residence' to boost up her disposable income....”

Trust me, if they fancied him there would be no need to exchange money; alternatively, no amount of money would ever buy either of them. They have more self respect than that.

“HE also didn't relish the thought of his daughters (he has 2) doing that, yet he was doing it with someone elses daughter.”

Every woman I have “known” has been someones daughter. I met a few of their dad and mums too.

“I think, if we remembered the preciousness, fragility and vulnerability of our children and grandchildren, during their first few months of life, how utterly dependant they are on us.. “

I cherish the memory of the birth of both my girls, I have found the greater joy in seeing them fly-the-nest and take their places in the world as responsible, functioning adults but to then come back to me because they choose to, not because they are too fragile or vulnerable to go anywhere else.

“we can still hold people dear.” I disagreed with my daughters a lot (or they with me), yet they still respected me sufficient to listen.

btw "Rape" has been depicted graphically and repeatedly throughout history.

Typically, "Rape of the Sabines" has been used as the topic of many noted artists Giambologna, Picasso, Poussin and Rubens to name but four.

"look out kid it's somethin you did

Gods knows when but your doin it agen"

Bob Lucifer Dylan

Col said:

1/ <<They have more self respect than that.>>

and

2/ <<Trust me, if they fancied him there would be no need to exchange money>>;

and

3/ <<Again we are talking about personal values which clearly differ but are equally valid.>>

On point 1, self respect has a reference point.
Presumably, when children, it is the values in which they were brought up, and as they matured, the values they perceive from society about how a person should carry themselves.

It's on the latter of those 2 which I am more focused. I'm still mildly traumatized, and lack respect for one of my uncles who's home I used to stay at because of my cousin at holidays sometimes. I got up during the night, to do something, food, loo, I 4get, but I went to his and my aunts bedroom, and found a THIRD person in the bed.. who was it? aaah.. it was his lady co-worker from the Dry Cleaners he managed.

YIKES...I just had a close look at my porridge, (which I'm eating as I write this) and realized I'm getting 'extra protein'... little dead creeping things all floating on the top of the milk...yuk! *goes 2 the sink....pour*:)

BACK to the post :) On your point 2, well thats quite natural to the human condition, but I wasn't alluding to that. I was speaking about students prostituting themselves for extra cash. Can't see how this contributes to self respect.

Now, that leads on to the next point about varying individual values.
Don't you think that if every family and person had different values the chances of social harmony are lessened? Of course, they would need to be much more different than "I like blue things/he likes red things".. mainly in the moral area. If one married couple were enthusiasticly *swingers* but u not, it might be a bit hard to feel comfortable with them no?

I'm not calling for censorship as much as 'self' censorship based on good values as a society.