http://youtube.com/watch?v=-mdX3PCHUlA

"Rape Dance video shocks Memphis Community"

By now most of you would possibly have heard about this on the news.

KEY QUESTION. "Is this an 'isolated' attention grabbing exercise" or.. is it a serious litmus test of social depravity?

To me, speaking from my position on MIUAUG, it is yet another example of the downward slide of social and moral degradation which is the absolutely predictable outcome of the absence of clear moral values in society.

Enduring Moral values are directly connected to Spiritual values.

But that aside, how many were a little concerned when 'Dirty Dancing' came out? I was.. I cannot see the point or value in doing something described as 'dirty' and then popularizing it.

So..we have gone from 'Barn Dance/Waltz to 'Rock n Roll'...to Dirty Dancing..now to RAPE dancing. Not that I ever had a quarrel with the good ol progressive barn dance.

Whats the 'next' step? ... perhaps 'Devil Dancing' ? Its not so far fetched as you might think.

Ah ha!
Puppets via a dark puppeteer!
Its always "the beat" that satan gets them through.
If they knew the Bible and what was going on in the spirit world they would be ashamed of their behaviour.
What a decline in moral standards all over the world since WW2 as the devil changed "the beat" towards sexual immorality.
Are you a personal embarrassment to yourself by the music you listen to?
Dark music creates dark hearts.

“Enduring Moral values are directly connected to Spiritual values.”

Not necessarily, I would consider myself a “moral” person but my “morality” will be different to yours because I probably consider more things a private individual matter than something for public criticism.

As for spiritual values, I would consider myself a very “unspiritual” person, having little to no interest in such things.

So I do not consider my morality to be the product of or dependent upon my spirituality in any way at all.

As for dirty dancing, that was nothing, I watched a couple give an exhibition of tango once. It was one of the most erotic performances I have ever seen, using the “as close as possible without actually touching” technique to instill an overt sexual tension between the dancers. Compared to them, Dirty Dancing was like “afternoon tea with grandma” but had they been there, I would not have been embarrassed in watching those tango dancers with my daughters.
I guess, I do not see sex or sexuality as something dirty or to be repressed.
I see it as one of the many expressions of human emotion.

Of course, watching such displays does not incite me to go and inflict my lust upon the nearest female, I have more self control than that.

Gibo “What a decline in moral standards all over the world since WW2 as the devil changed "the beat" towards sexual immorality.”

And blues musicians are the high priests?

Thanx Gibo.. yep.. Satan is certainly a factor.

Col...you said:

I guess, I do not see sex or sexuality as something dirty or to be repressed. I see it as one of the many expressions of human emotion.

Shock horror, I'm sure Gibo and definitely myself totally agree with you......
The issue here is not about 'sex' or our sexual side, but of its distortion (by our values) in the shameless public act of simulating.... remember now.. RAPE.

I'm thinking your 'wowser alarm' was buzzing there :) Now.. its not about 'sex is dirty' its about RAPE is evil!

Yes.. we would probably differ about the limits to sex, for us, for example, we hold dear the value of it being a man and woman in marriage. We believe this is the safest place for it.
I'm sure you wouldn't feel comfortable for one of my unbeliever mates who indulges in 'student sponsorship' to partake of one of ur daughters working part time at some 'residence' to boost up her disposable income.... would u? Interestingly, HE also didn't relish the thought of his daughters (he has 2) doing that, yet he was doing it with someone elses daughter.

I think, if we remembered the preciousness, fragility and vulnerability of our children and grandchildren, during their first few months of life, how utterly dependant they are on us.. and how we shelter, protect and feed them..how we want what is best for them....perhaps we should all seek to bring these things to our hearts re grown up people? Even in moments of disagreement, we can still hold people dear.
Ginx.. u there? :) I was speaking 'spiritually' on the cancer thing..not literally, and there's always hope.

Well we knew that fundies disapprove of sex because it might lead to dancing, and also that they regard rock'n'roll as the devil's music.

Personally, I'm more concerned with the casual use of terms like "rape" and "ho" than I am with kids groping each other with their clothes on.

"Enduring Moral values are directly connected to Spiritual values."

David, if you really believe this why are you constantly hammering away at Muslims and interpreting the Koran to suit your argument while ignoring the ambiguity in the Christian bible?

Moral values may have been moulded by spirituality over the centuries but they can endure without supernatural belief.

I agree with you that rape is abhorrent and we agree that there is room for improvement in some areas as regards moral values particularly in relation to children. But to suggest that lack of spirituality is to blame while the whole world is currently obsessed with religion is simplistic. The US projects the image of spirituality but this is not reflected in its actions or behaviours - the real test of morality (invasion of Iraq just for starters).

You can bet your boots Pelican that the invasion of Iraq was made in small backrooms well away from the White House and the spiritual side (Christianity) of America. I see the President as a figure head and the real power somewhere between intelligence and military.
I think its been a longtime since the Oval office had much to say about anything major.

Gibo, you state: "What a decline in moral standards all over the world since WW2 as the devil changed "the beat" towards sexual immorality."

I've discovered something incredibly amusing gibo. I just know you're gonna love this.

Out of curiosity and boredom, I keyed 'Gibo' into wikipedia.

There's one entry, under 'gibo.' Here it is: Gibo - Stepmother's sin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibo-_Stepmother%27s_Sin

"Gibo is an open-ended game, with different various endings the player can get if conditions are met. There are two meters on the screen- a lewd and a love meter. The higher the lewd meter, the more likely the player will receive either one of the more sexually explicit endings, or one of the bad endings. The higher the love meter, the better the chance for a good or neutral ending."

Do you know what the one reference to Gibo is, Gibo?

'Gibo - Stepmother's sin' is a computer game, but not just any kind apparently. It's a 'hentai' piece. Garn, key that into wikipedia - actually, you best not. I wouldn't want to lead you into sinful ways.

It's animated porn, Gibo. Your namesake, is an Asian computer game, where the user is attempting to score as much sex as they can.

Is it just me, or is there a distinct irony in the fact that you're sitting at a computer and with a serious tone, you berate sex, pornography and even ribald music, when your name is about using a computer to procure sexual images in a lighthearted manner?

Just one of those amusing things I know you'll chuckle over. I know I did.

Plus, y'know, I wouldn't one one of your devoted fans to innocently key your name into wikipedia and inadvertently be led astray...

Ha! Clearly Gibo is an agent provocateur of the 'kings of the East'. I should've guessed.

Thanks TRTL - forewarned is forearmed!

P.S. Do you know if the game features flying saucers and/or demons?

Sexuality like other human emotions is all about respect.Sex is a very personal human emotion/activity.It is often the motivation for a lot of human,constructive behaviour.To indulge in and display overt sexuality,elucidating no respect from the voyeristic observers,denegrates the participants,thus lowering all our expectations.

The formula for a successful happy society is not simple or easy to achieve,however,whenever the individual lacks the incentive to aspire beyond their base gonadal desires,then our society is in the death throes of decay.

Teenagers are constantly confronted with contradictory demands and pressures.

The media, for example, extol the virtues of sexual satisfaction and the value of material goods, but adolescents are usually forbidden full acess to both, even though they have the physical maturity to achieve them.

Having more freedom than children but less than adults, adolescents are constantly tempted to question or test the authority of parents and teachers. Segregated from other age groups in high schools, they tend to form their own subculture, with norms, values, and attitudes that may differ significantly from those of the society that surrounds them.

The case in point here is the "Dance" video that shocked so many in
Memphis. Of course parents were concerned, as was the school
and its principal and staff.

The school has taken measures to ensure that this doesn't happen again. Teachers, parents, and students will be working together - hopefully towards more appropriate behaviour in the future.

Dear Plekican (thats how my son used to say it :)

I speak as I am.. this goes without saying. If you look back over the history of let's say "England" from 1700 to now... you can see cycles.

The moral situation in the 19th century, prior to the Evangelical Awakening, was as bad as it is today, if not worse. You can do some Googling to verify this if you wish.

While we (as Christians) cannot impose our morality on others at the personal level (yet we can exercise our democratic rights and VOTE for laws which we believe in) it is clear that when large numbers of people repented during these awakenings, the moral tone of society was improved dramatically.

Look up "Bohemian Grove" to see the kind of antics which go on at the upper levels of US society and power.. it's chilling.

Governors with high cost hookers.... scandal after scandal..

Regarding my alleged "opinions" about Islam... honestly, you reallllllly need to look at what I post.. I am usually just reporting "Muslim" opinions and understandings. My interaction with Kayser is based on exactly that.
Have a peek at this hadith.. please.. read it fully, and see if I am in any way 'wrong' in my assertion that "Muslims later than Mohammad used surah 9:29 to justify invading non Muslims" See the words of Al-Mughira to the Persian envoy..

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/053.sbt.html#004.053.386

then compare them with this: (Quran)

009.029
YUSUFALI: Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, .... until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

then... give me your honest opinion...please.

Then, if ur really adventurous.. check this out.

http://islammonitor.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1355&Itemid=63
(scroll down to the image which 'hits' you)
Then see what the practice is based on....

here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWTWlwqeMQI
and here: http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/muslim/008.smt.html#008.3428

Its beyond freaky. (thats my 'opinion' on it)

I cannot vouch for the authenticity of the pic in the link, but looking at the expression on the woman at the left, it seems genuine.
The image is still based on the Hadith. (I report, you decide)

CJ: "P.S. Do you know if the game features flying saucers and/or demons?"

No idea. I doubt it, but I wouldn't be surprised if it included a villainous anti-unsanctioned-sex crusader...

Hi David

I am aware of the strength of your feelings about these issues,but the thing is we can all Google sites about Islam and find some pretty disturbing information but there is equally disturbing information about other Religions including the history of Christianity through the ages. I think you transfer the extreme manifestations of Islam as the norm.

Morality does indeed go in cycles -from the excesses of Nero's Rome to the stringent Victorian times. Scrape the surface a bit through those more conservative times and you will still find immorality (whatever that might be perceived as)present in various forms whether if be oppression of those whose values are different or religious/non-religious figures of authority abusing their position of power and exploiting the fear of retribution.

As for Bohemian Grove well this is nothing new - large groups of powerful men exploiting their advantages and power to do as they please. Same story different time, different group.

Christianity is not going to fix these problems David - I am not sure what will. More equitable economic systems might go a lot further than Religion in this regard.

David “The issue here is not about 'sex' or our sexual side, but of its distortion (by our values) in the shameless public act of simulating.... remember now.. RAPE.”

Somethings are just bad taste. Censorship is no answer

I do not support them. I do what anyone with a sense of discernment should do, ignore them and leave the supposed “artists” to the ignominy of seeing a lot of backs turned.

“I'm thinking your 'wowser alarm'”

Actually, I do not have one

You are entitled to your view and I am pleased to hear you express it. I can counter it with reason and maybe will even influence you to change your opinion.

The sex-man-woman-marriage thing is totally wasted on me, I have been married twice but can count a few more lovers than that. Again we are talking about personal values which clearly differ but are equally valid.

“one of ur daughters working part time at some 'residence' to boost up her disposable income....”

Trust me, if they fancied him there would be no need to exchange money; alternatively, no amount of money would ever buy either of them. They have more self respect than that.

“HE also didn't relish the thought of his daughters (he has 2) doing that, yet he was doing it with someone elses daughter.”

Every woman I have “known” has been someones daughter. I met a few of their dad and mums too.

“I think, if we remembered the preciousness, fragility and vulnerability of our children and grandchildren, during their first few months of life, how utterly dependant they are on us.. “

I cherish the memory of the birth of both my girls, I have found the greater joy in seeing them fly-the-nest and take their places in the world as responsible, functioning adults but to then come back to me because they choose to, not because they are too fragile or vulnerable to go anywhere else.

“we can still hold people dear.” I disagreed with my daughters a lot (or they with me), yet they still respected me sufficient to listen.

btw "Rape" has been depicted graphically and repeatedly throughout history.

Typically, "Rape of the Sabines" has been used as the topic of many noted artists Giambologna, Picasso, Poussin and Rubens to name but four.

"look out kid it's somethin you did

Gods knows when but your doin it agen"

Bob Lucifer Dylan

Col said:

1/ <<They have more self respect than that.>>

and

2/ <<Trust me, if they fancied him there would be no need to exchange money>>;

and

3/ <<Again we are talking about personal values which clearly differ but are equally valid.>>

On point 1, self respect has a reference point.
Presumably, when children, it is the values in which they were brought up, and as they matured, the values they perceive from society about how a person should carry themselves.

It's on the latter of those 2 which I am more focused. I'm still mildly traumatized, and lack respect for one of my uncles who's home I used to stay at because of my cousin at holidays sometimes. I got up during the night, to do something, food, loo, I 4get, but I went to his and my aunts bedroom, and found a THIRD person in the bed.. who was it? aaah.. it was his lady co-worker from the Dry Cleaners he managed.

YIKES...I just had a close look at my porridge, (which I'm eating as I write this) and realized I'm getting 'extra protein'... little dead creeping things all floating on the top of the milk...yuk! *goes 2 the sink....pour*:)

BACK to the post :) On your point 2, well thats quite natural to the human condition, but I wasn't alluding to that. I was speaking about students prostituting themselves for extra cash. Can't see how this contributes to self respect.

Now, that leads on to the next point about varying individual values.
Don't you think that if every family and person had different values the chances of social harmony are lessened? Of course, they would need to be much more different than "I like blue things/he likes red things".. mainly in the moral area. If one married couple were enthusiasticly *swingers* but u not, it might be a bit hard to feel comfortable with them no?

I'm not calling for censorship as much as 'self' censorship based on good values as a society.

COL.. here are some 'values' which errr...don't exactly inspire confidence in our social condition :)

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23720904-12377,00.html

<<The Sunday Times and Sunday Telegraph reported that an MI5 officer had been forced to resign after it emerged that his wife was one of five prostitutes who took part in an orgy with Max Mosley, president of Formula One's governing body, the FIA.>>

I take it you don't watch 'Spooks' then, Boazy?

Goooood morning CJ... hope you had a good weekend!

Spooks? don't quite see what that has to do with this topic, but.. seeing as you raised it :) (u know..red rag..bull all that kinda thing) (I think I've seen it maybe twice..I even got weary of the constant emotional 'edgyness' of '24')

Remember (this is off topic, but on 'me') you and Perilous are always poo poo-ing my rants and ravings about radicals having a big impact?

You might find this most interesting, as it outlines the connections between vast numbers of terrorist activity and 'one' mosque/fringe group in UK.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95GGrhVgsV4&feature=related

Notice the LARGE impact of this supposedly 'small' band of fringe whackos.

Now.. there is an angle where this can be related to the topic of "Another step downward".

Analoguous (in impact) to "radical fringe whacko's" of the Islamist kind, are those of the 'moral' kind, such as this 'rape dance' incident.

Clearly, it does not take a HUGE organization to have a significant impact socially.

So, I just see this Rape Dance thing as further evidence (as if it was needed) of the decay of our social values, and in the predictable direction of 'down the toilet'.

I find myself asking this "Why... rather than take the sexualized, violent direction, did they not go the other direction, emphasizing say abstinence b4 marriage and true love between faithful people"?

Surely it could not be because of our 'fallen' natures ? :)

DB Self respect, is the value which we place on ourselves.

Reference point 1:They are perceived primarily from parents and secondarily from family and then wider society, diminishing in accordance with regular exposure and most importantly those who the children themselves respect (role models, inspiration for emulation etc).

I suggest your naughty uncle was not the only influence in your childhood, so why dwell on someone you have rejected as a role model?

We all make choices in our lives, in hindsight, we will look back and say some were good, some bad and some may have been better left alone but have been basically inert.

My belief has been, for many years, people only develop and grow through being allowed to make those choices and handling the reward of good ones and dealing with the consequences of bad ones.

If you think that because of things like easier divorce and supposed more promiscuity, society, as a whole is going to hell in a hand basket, I would counter and suggest:

higher divorce rates mean fewer people wishing for their own or the death of a partner in a loveless marriage.

Promiscuity, whilst undesirable is less undesirable than the bigotry and corruption of a repressed society which, through the authorative power of the social apparatchiks like the church, ban brothels whilst ignoring the abuse of the vulernable by the powerful.

“Social harmony” is a reflective measure, not a goal, especially if it is only achieved through repression of the individuals who are measured to assess that “social harmony”

“'self' censorship based on good values as a society.”

Self censorship can only be the product of self control. It is controlled against a set of self assessed values. Once it becomes an authority beyond “the self” which defines the limits of censorship, it ceases to be “self” and the “good values of society” become imposed instead of self regulated.

I am ok with self-censorship, although it is a bit like “lent”, would me, giving up Friday night porn parties equate with someone else who forgoes sex altogether?

HI TO ALL THE FORGOTTEN AUSTRALIANS THE STOLEN GENERATION

AND TO ALL OTHER VICTIMS OF SEXUAL RAPES AND ABUSE

WHILE IN INSTITUTIONAL CARE IN OUR STATE OF NEW SOUTH WALES

AND OF OTHER STATES OF AUSTRALIA

" RAPE "

VICTIMS SUCH AS US VICTIMS ARE BEEN DENINED OUR RIGHT FOR JUSTICE AS THE STATE OF NEW SOUTH WALES ARE STILL TODAY COVERING UP THE RAPES AND ABUSE THAT WE SUFFERED IN THESE HOMES THROUGH OUT AUSTRALIA

SO ITS OK FOR PEOPLE TO TALK ABOUT RAPE IN THIS POST YET A POST I TRIED TO HAVE RUNNING GOT STOP ALSO I GOT BANNED FOR TWO WEEKS BECAUSE I SPOKE OF THE TRUTH OF WHAT THE GOVERMENT OF NEW SOUTH WALES AND THE AUSTRALIAN GOVERMENT HAVE DONE

COVER UP OF WHAT WE VICTIMS SUFFERED IN THESE STATE INSTITUTIONS IN AUSTRALIA AND THAT OF DARUK BOYS HOME

YES WE ARE REAL VICTIMS AND STILL LIVING SOME HAVE PASSED AWAY DUE TO ILL HEALTH OR SUPISIOUS DEATHS OR SUISIDE OR SOME ONE SHUTTING THEM UP

THE STATE GOVERMENT CONTINUES TO COVER THESE RAPES AND ABUSE AND CAN GET AWAY WITH IT FOR ALL THESE YEARS FIGHTING FOR JUSTICE

BUT FOR OVER FORTY YEARS ALL UP THIS GOVERMENT STATE OF NEW SOUTH WALES AND OTHER STATES ARE AND WERE RESPONABLE FOR TAKING CARE OF US NOT RAPING AND ABUSING US

ADMITT THE TRUTH NEW SOUTH WALES STATE. OF THE RAPES AND ABUSE THAT TOOK PLACE IN THESE INSTITUTIONS WE WERE PLACED IN

YOU HAD CONTROL OF US YOUR EMPLOYEES RAPED ABUSED AND MISTREATED US

AND FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO DON'T BELEIVE ME READ THE SENATE INQUIREIS

THE FORGOTTEN AUSTRALIANS AUGUST 2004 AND THE SECOND REPORT VUNLERABLE CHILDREN IN INSTITUTIONAL CARE AND OUT OF HOME CARE MARCH 2005

BECAUSE THE GOVERMENT DOES NOT HAVE THE BALLS TO TELL THE TRUTH OF WHAT HAPPEND TO US BECAUSE ANOTHER REASON BEING IT IS GOING TO COST THEM DEARLY TO AND LOSE RESPECT FOR THEM

WE ARE REAL VICTIMS AND WANT JUSTICE STOP THE COVER UP NEW SOUTH WALES

FROM A REAL VICTIM OF INSTITUTIONAL ABUSE

REGARDS HUFFNPUFF

huffnpuff,

You seem to have accidently left your caps lock on.

Col,

You're wasting your time arguing with Boaz and Gibo.

Boaz,

Have you still got your anti-terrorism fridge magnet? I was living abroad when The Rodent handed them out, and I'd really like one.

'We believe this is the safest place for it.'

Is sex really that dangerous?

Gibo,

'What a decline in moral standards all over the world since WW2 '

Were moral standards really good around the time WW2?

Foxy,

'The media, for example, extol the virtues of sexual satisfaction and the value of material goods, but adolescents are usually forbidden full acess to both, even though they have the physical maturity to achieve them.'

This is a big problem. I would think that teenagers who are tax payers should have all the rights of adults. It is amazing to me one can pay tax but isn't allowed to vote. One could also once be barred from drinking alcohol, yet be allowed/made to kill for their country. Teenagers get a raw deal all round I think.

To All,

Hey has anyone seen the Lawnmower dance? Or the sprinkler dance, or the food shopping dance?

HUFF... ur a man now..why not FIND the mongrel who did what they did to you and (punch his lights out? <--emotional reaction) or....carry a sign outside his house "THIS MAN IS A RAPIST..I KNOW..HE RAPED ME AS A CHILD" <---reflective reaction)aah..now that might have some impact.

Col.. much to think about there... pity we don't have a coffee table between us :)

This information might give you food for thought: (specially the graphs)

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Family/WM1.cfm

They will have to replace the Biccy I'd give ya otherwise :

"But that aside, how many were a little concerned when 'Dirty Dancing' came out? I was.. I cannot see the point or value in doing something described as 'dirty' and then popularizing it."

agreed David,

what is the point in YOU searching out and then popularizing this "nothing" UTube video, especially when there are some fantastic videos [like mine ho-hum] on UTube

maybe either get a life or better still go and help those in real need eg in Burma or China

Boaz: you state "Enduring Moral values are directly connected to Spiritual values."

That statement does not cut it. You only have to look towards the abuse of innocent and defenseless children carried out by leaders/members of the spiritual community who were obviously morally bankrupt.

The video on u-tube is really no big deal. It is a way of creatively expressing oneself through dance.

Remember when Elvis was banned from the waist down on T.V.? We can look at that now and acknowledge that it also was really no big deal in the whole scheme of things.

BOAZ - DAVID ,

WELL ITS LIKE THIS

THE COURTS ARE SUPOSE TO BE THE ONE'S WHO DO JUSTICE FOR THE VICTIMS AND THE COMMUNITY, YET THEY ARE FAILING ,WITH NOT ONLY WITH ME BUT OF OTHER VICTIMS ,

YOUR RIGHT I IN WHAT YOU SAID IN PAYING THEM A VISIT YET IF I DO THAT I WILL BE LOWERING MYSELF DOWN AGAIN TO THE SICKO'S

EVERYONE OUT THEIR KNOWS THAT WHAT HAPPEND TO VICTIMS LIKE ME ARE TRUE AND REAL ,WHEN YOU LIVE THROUGH THE THINGS AS WE VICTIMS HAVE HAD TO DO YOU WOULD KNOW HOW WE FEEL ,

THE STATE OF NEW SOUTH WALES IS COVERING UP THE RAPES AND ABUSES WE SUFFERED

YES ITS EASY FOR SOME ONE OUT THEIR TO SAY GO FIX THEM UP YOUR SELF

FOR THIS STATE OF NEW SOUTH WALES TO KNOW THAT THEIR STATE GOVERMENT IS STILL COVERING UP ALL THESE RAPES AND ABUSES WE VICTIMS SUFFERED BY THOSE WHO WERE TO PROTECT US NOT RAPE US AND MIS TREAT US THE WAY THEY DID

THATS RIGHT THE GOVERMENT COVERS UP THE TRUTH ALL THE TIME UNTIL THEY COME UNDONE AND SOON THEY WILL

THE SAME INSTITUTION I AM SUING THAT WAS RUN BY D.O.C.S. HAD SETTLEMENTS OF CONFIDENTIALITIE AGREMENTS SIGHNED BY VICTIMS THAT ARE NOW TO GUTLESS TO STAND UP WITH OTHER REAL VICTIMS

ALSO D.O.C.S. SAY ALL RECORDS OF MY EVER BEING IN DARUK BOYS HOME WERE DESTROYED IN 1999,

YET IVE GOT ACTUAL DOCUMENTS OF THE COURT SAYING THE DATE I WAS PUT IN THIS HOME THEIR MEDICAL RECORDS OF ME BEING THEIR

SO HOW CAN THE GOVERMENT SAY I DO NOT EXCIST

EVEN JUVENILLE JUSTICE HAVE NO RECORDS OF ME

YET I PRODUCED SUCH DOCUMENTS INTO THE COURT SYDNEY SUPREME

WELL WE CAN ONLY KEEP TELLING OUR STORY UNTIL IT GETS SOME ONE WITH SOME POWER AND GUTS IN PARLIMENT TO STAND UP FOR NEW SOUTH WALES VICTIMS ,

REGARDS HUFFNPUFF

Dear Huffy

I can better appreciate your predicament since a friend of mine known since he was 16 broke down recently in a car trip interstate.. he told me how he had returned to the orphanage where he and his 2 siblings were placed during a family crisis.

They were not sexually abused, but he is still traumatized by the strictness of it all and lack of love.

I guess you need to persue your case as best you see fit, but I think you may be assured of one thing. Sin WILL be punished, and in ways far worse than you can imagine.

The thing you need most is healing. Please consider what the Lord Jesus went through on the cross to heal humanity of sin, and make us whole again.

"the punishment that brought us peace was upon him,
and by his wounds we are healed."

God knows what you went through.. he also knows those who did it to you.

While you cannot do anything for them, you can do something for you.
They will assuredly be punished. But you can be healed.. find new life and peace.

Please don't let this thing be like barbed wire around your mind and heart.. (your history).. let go, and let God... in Christ, make you a new person, one who has peace.

Dear Tammy

You said:

"Remember when Elvis was banned from the waist down on T.V.? We can look at that now and acknowledge that it also was really no big deal in the whole scheme of things."

I disagree. If you chart family breakdown per 1000 population, you can find the graph goes up..and up..and up from the 60s.

The BIG picture is really a bad one. The problem is, you have been brought up IN that bad picture, (so it's normal to you) and I saw it being painted :)

The 'spiritually bankrupt' people who acted under the Church's auspices are tragic and I'm sure they cannot even live with themselves now, perhaps they live by the aid of a bottle? Don't let 'their' evil effect you mate.

DD.. your videos are rather obsessive mate.. but agreed, technically u have done your bit quite well.. but seems like you are 'driven' by emotions which will ultimately prove to be destructive.

I hope you can separate yourself from the harsh emotiveness of all that, and simply campaign with some peace in your life.

It seems to me you are looking to 'this world' for some justice.. mate... u will be 4eva dissappointed. Look to Christ himself.
Don't look for 'perfect Christian' you wont find them :)
But you will find some precious and cherised friends who you can love, and who will love you at the point of your deepest need.

Help Burma ?- those mongrel military bosses- you can't help people unless you can 'get' to them.

DB “Col.. much to think about there... pity we don't have a coffee table between us :)”

I think from your past posts you are in Melbourne,

I am in the Melbourne (Southbank) most work days, currently.

Happy to handle a coffee…

GY has my email.

Forward something and I will happily respond.

As for the social trends. Life is like that.

What I think is important is we live in a less repressed and less authoritarian society than that of even just 40 years ago. Pregnant girls and their boy friends being forced into marriages against their will. Abortion being illegal.

I have no doubt the social dysfunction of say 150 years ago were far more damning than they are now, when alcohol use was not regulated and abortions were legal (being prior to the mid 19th century legislation) and children stuck up chimneys to clean them.

The natural effect of a period of social liberation, as was experienced in the “consumer liberalisation” following the WWII austerity era is “excess”,

A similar thing happened in the old USSR when the Communist system collapsed.

The pendulum then swings back. However, hopefully it is not swung with the influence of the enforced prudery from a puritanic backlash/revival but more common sense and self accountability.

I am an advocate for social liberalisation but I recognise the “price” of liberalisation is self accountability and responsibility.

We only grow through exercising choice and living with the consequence of those choices (good or bad). A society which regulates the individuals who comprise it effectively deny those individuals that opportunity to “grow”.

I think Col said it pretty well, DB. Elvis's pelvic thrusts were indeed harmless.

You speak of the number of marriage breakups increasing since the 60s, and say this is evidence of a downward spiral.

I say, it's evidence people now have the freedom to live their own lives.

Regrettably, there would be no accurate statistics on how many people lived miserable lives, locked into marriages they didn't want. I have a suspicion it was quite high. I dare say, domestic violence statistics and so forth from that period, are also nigh on impossible to collect, which is a shame.

Because it certainly wouldn't be the Christian shang-ri-la 'good-ole-days' that many people with a conservative bent like to pretend.

Also consider, that people are living longer than ever. 'Ever after' is a hell of a lot longer than it used to be, and the sad fact is, some people grow apart. Some don't. Hopefully, most experience the latter.

But to be locked into it because the culture expects you to, would be hellish. I for one, am glad of it. If this is what Elvis's pelvic thrusts were indicative of, I'm damn glad he did it.

"Rape Dance video shocks Memphis Community"

By now most of you would possibly have heard about this on the news.

KEY QUESTION. "Is this an 'isolated' attention grabbing exercise" or.. is it a serious litmus test of social depravity?

I looked at video and my first impression was it was mocking our PC society where americans cant even say wheres the toilet , but say where's the bAAthroom but [like you] are obsessed by the "wild oats" sex they missed out on and are glued to plastic sex as Sex in the City, Big Brother etc

secondly there was no suggestion of rape, so yes as you demonstrate this is attention grabbing exercise, not by kids but by PC pedants, espec those who claim to "have God on their Side"

but nuthin new - the Spanish Inquisition was just this, and went for 500 years

COL....thanx..I've written to GY for ur email.

Col says:

I am an advocate for social liberalisation but I recognise the “price” of liberalisation is self accountability and responsibility.

Agreed.. but the degree to which we 'self regulate' is determined by conscience and how 'finely tuned' it is(Garbage in/Garbage out). That happens when our awareness of acceptable values is high. The problem is..'who' defines acceptable values. With MIUAUG the loudest voice does.
In one sense I'm really just calling (as I've done once or twice on OLO)for national repentance and faith :) a re-orientation of our values. But repentance must be by choice also, it cannot be legislated. Even in the absense of a strong awareness of Gods values, we can still make good laws, but capitalism generally takes us the other way. (Socialism is just as bad)

TRTL says:

<<Regrettably, there would be no accurate statistics on how many people lived miserable lives, locked into marriages they didn't want. I have a suspicion it was quite high.>>

So... in reality ur saying that the 'absence' of visible family breakdown 'then' and the 'prevalence' of that breakdown now.. are both evidence of how screwed up we were then..and STILL are.

Thanx :) u made my day.

But..having said that, I can vouch for the reality of how much less one is prone to going astray when the values your community holds dear, are reinforced regularly and at every level of community life.

Of course, in that I'm referring to a prayerful, worshipful,caring Christian community as we had in Malaysia.

Of course we had the ratbags and people who went down the moral gurgler, ur ears would tingle to know some examples...I still remember the day I passed one of the Bible school teachers wives on the track as she returned from having it on with a local bloke in the town across the river.
Such things are like emotional earthquakes in the community, but they don't change the predominant direction.

Actually boaz, I said that there's no evidence either way, so we can never know for certain what life was like.

But I added that in my opinion, it would be a foolhardy optimist (or someone who for their own reasons, would like to curtail liberal freedoms) who thinks that just because the culture didn't allow marriages to dissolve, that people must have been happy in them.

A slight difference, but in debates such as this where the evidence doesn't exist, one persuasive tactic is to attempt to shift the onus of proof... but that proof doesn't exist either way.

And I don't think it's screwed up to have the courage to leave a partner if that partner is making you unhappy. Sometimes, people are better off apart. Sometimes, it's better for both. Sometimes it's also better for the children if they're involved.
The conservative cultural approach doesn't appreciate that. The individual's right to choose what's best for them is curtailed in favour of a one size-fits-all proposal.
I find that far more 'screwed up.' In fact, I think what we have now is far, far superior to what existed in the supposed glory-days of the 50s.

DB “(Garbage in/Garbage out).”

Sometimes but not always.

However, societal censorship simply means “Nothing In / Nothing Out”. The result, an unfulfilled life experience and no responsibility / accountability either (cannot be accountable for what is banned and unavailable).

“Acceptable values” remain, liberally defined through statute rather than being micro-managed by intrusive statute.

“national repentance and faith “ that is like asking for national compassion and love.

These uniquely human qualities cannot be transferred or assigned to governments or bureaucracies. People who misguidedly expect them from government (particularly those beguiled by the first lie of socialism, who believe that government cares) are fools.

I keep saying it in various ways, government does not and never will care about the best interests of the electorate, because anything approaching “interest” will be first diverted to the benefit of the elected and the bureaucrats, leaving the electorate to share the spin and the scraps.

This is why I believe in smaller government, not larger and in the value and in the significance of the individual, as the pinnacle force of all human endeavour.

“we can still make good laws, but capitalism generally takes us the other way.”

Of course we can still make good and valid laws, regardless of a theological base and capitalism is an economic method, not a moral position. Capitalism is good because it is propelled by the innovation, energy and passion of individuals and not by the dead hand of a dispassionate and emotionless government (the latter being what makes socialism bad).

Finally I looked at one of your incessant Youtube links.

It is a tacky squalid demonstration by these students.

What is also tacky and squalid is how you as a man of God are even viewing this. Why is it necessary for you to publicize it even further? What is in that little mind of yours?

(Usual lecture by BOZO follows shortly.)

BOAZ,
1. ' got up during the night, to do something, food, loo, I 4get,but I went to his and my aunts bedroom, and found a THIRD person in the bed.. '

2. 'I arose to goto the loo, and I sleep in Jocks and T-shirt, no jarmies. I staggered to the door of my room not thinking much about anything, and to my surprise one of the wives also had 'the call' at the same time. We almost bumped into each other as I exited the room. She then took my arm and escorted me down the hall with a smirk "We must stop meeting like this" :) and we went to our separate ablutions.
'

3. ' passed one of the Bible school teachers wives on the track as she returned from having it on with a local bloke in the town across the river.
'

I think you're a bit sus. These stories just keep turning up when you are in the position of voyeur...

If I were you, I would stop lurking around the house at night on the pretense of 'going to the loo', and perhaps you wouldn't see such 'depravity' all around you:-)

CJ: "Personally, I'm more concerned with the casual use of terms like "rape" and "ho" than I am with kids groping each other with their clothes on."

Same. The dance itself looks like play sex, not play rape. The only mention of rape is a guy saying "rape dat ho".

Nevertheless, it's inappropriate, worrying and kinda strange behaviour — hard for a pushing-40 honky like me to understand. This is not just Elvis, who married music and sex. This marries, in some way, music and a kind of devalued, brutal, emotionless eroticism.

God is partly the problem. Mitchell High School is in Memphis. According to Wikipedia (sorry), it's the buckle of the bible belt, home of Church of God in Christ and Bellevue Baptist Church, one of the largest in the Southern Baptist Convention. These kids would go to church. They know about god. They would have been taught that abstinence is the best contraceptive. They do not lack for spiritual guidance.

In fact, it is Christianity that results in problematic sexual behaviour — more teenage pregnancy and more STDs, for a start. These kids have grown up hearing about hellfire and damnation, rather than being taught that right and wrong can be deduced with empathy and intelligence. They need to know that there's more than two options — either godliness, or the pimps and hos path to bling.

I hope the community finds a solution.

Boazy and Col, if you really do go have that coffee can you make a video and utube it for us?

VANILLA...I'd do that (youtube it) but GINX would then track us down :)

COL...

you said:

(particularly those beguiled by the first lie of socialism, who believe that government cares) are fools.

When you said that, I really expected the page to explode and shower all of us with nail-shrapnel from Ginx.. after all..she does (by her own confession) have this 'latent violence' thing :)...

Ginxy..if TUS can list all my little stories and call me a voyuer, surely I can give you a bit of a dig eh?

TUS.. aah.. you READ my posts :) happy day!

Mate..the voyuer is in you not me. I just pass on lifes little events which seem relevant, or.. just interesting.. remember now..I'm an only child, so I tend to have a rather myopic 'me' centred view of the universe at times. Apologies for that.. it is a weakness and I continue to work on it.. Pericles and CJ are helping me with some on-going counselling.

VANILLA... my goodness.. if I'm the 'incessant ranter' and Islamophobe, you are without question the secular equivalent 'Christian hater'.. but, I just point that out for your information, in case you had not realized it..(hmm I'm sure I've heard those words somewhere else recently)

But seriously..how in this wide world you can blame 'Christianity' for this rape dance.... is like.. polka dotted pigs flying!
'Christ' calls people to purity, and away from lust.. that's Christianity.. so what's the connection to rape dances? err..NIL..but.. you in your tripping out reasoning can find it.. amazing stuff.

At least you DID see what it was really doing.. and Ginx cannot?
Ginx... you better watch it A-gain.. because they simulate not 'play sex' but play RAPE.... if you had watched it. Yes..there is a bit of play sex there, but further on its the rape stuff.

Sorry BOZO, I didn't make myself clear.

You are a grubby little man.

Boazy: "...amazing stuff"

Why thank you. For the record, I feel just as negatively toward Islam as I do toward Christianity.

However, the connection between Christian communities and high rates of violence and teenage pregnancy is well documented.

Oh, and I saw the whole youtube thing and didn't see the simulated rape.

Boaz, I think now would be a good time to share a little experience of my own.

I once came across this ridiculous website - www.conservapedia.com

It's essentially, just like wikipedia, but for stupid people who can't handle hearing the other side of the story. They consider wikipedia to have a 'liberal bias' even though it's created from contributions from all over the world, and accepts both sides of a controversial issue.

Now, conservapedia on the other hand, selectively chooses what material it selects, so it has a conservative-only approach. It even considers British and Australian spelling of words such as 'colour' (as opposed to the American 'color) to be a liberal bias.

Now, I must confess to a little mischief here - nothing that wasn't in the name of informing the public.
The entry on chastity and chastity pledges makes no mention of the fact that teenagers who have made these pledges do have higher rates of pregnancy and STDs than those who do not.

This is largely caused by the inadequate sex-ed they receive, the fact they can't use condoms and the other forms of intercourse they partake in, without protection.

I made an entry to this end on the chastity pledge - I cited a medical journal, a medical conference, three news articles and some official statistics. If need be, I could probably dig most of them up.

Of course, conservapedia had my additions removed within a matter of hours without explanation.

I guess it just didn't jibe with they way they like to pretend the world must be like.

For some reason, you remind me a little of conservapedia, boaz. Your Christian shang-ri-la sounds rather pleasant, but ignores the hidden ugly side.

Thanx TRTL....that was a reasonable post in spite of the "mischief."

I think any 'limiting' of information is dangerous. At Bible College, we studied the most rampant LIBERAL theologians as well as the conservatives. (Liberal as in.. Rudolph Bultman, Bauer and others, who re-interpret the whole bible in terms of a "documentary hypothesis" and 'demythologize' the Miraculous.

What I found, was that the holes in their theories were quite apparent, and the influence of their presuppositions determined their conclusions so transparently they were not the slightest threat as far as I was concerned.

The big picture is the important one. I fully realize that we cannot suddenly legislate everyone into becoming goody 2 shoes's.
The main point I'm making here, is that of gradual deline in society, and in a sense I'm 'preaching', because I'm highlighting the 'symptom' of a disease called 'sin' for which the cure is repentance and forgiveness and a living relationship of forgiveness and renewal with the risen Christ Jesus.

regards

BOAZ,

TUS.. aah.. you READ my posts :) happy day!

Why wouldn't I? What ever the topic, there is always a chance of hearing about some erotic scenario you have found yourself in. I know you try to make them tittilating for us. There always seems to be some kind of awkward sexual situation you find yourself in. It makes me think about joining the church you know. It all sounds very exciting. Wandering around the house at night, in search of the 'loo', and finding threesomes and brushing past strange women in your underwear. I think if that's what christianity is all about, I want to be part of it. I'm there with BELLS on!

AAAAH TUS :) The thing is mate.. I live in the real world :)

I had this 'vision' this morning.. an approach to evangelism. I might try it..

SIGN..

"GET RICH QUICK"... believe in Jesus"

When I bounced that of an elder here... he suggested one minor addition:

"GET 'RICH' QUICK"... believe in Jesus"

Did you see it?

Of course, the person with the public display/sign, will have nothing more than a little card with youtube search key words on it, leading to a video which explains the truth of the matter.

1/ True Riches, are of the heart, not the bank balance.
2/ There is a practical possibility of 'worldly' wealth though as a result of repentance and committment to Christ.....

If for example one was a '1 packet a day' smoker.. and also had a 6 pack of stubbies each day of a weekend.. then true repentance would provide an instant pay rise to the value of those debilitating habits....which one left behind.

BINGO.. you can suddenly afford a new car :)

The greatest 'riches' one can experience in life, is that of a genuine, heartfelt love from others, and for whom you can also give that same love.
The capacity for the deepest level of that, comes only from being one with Christ, His Spirit in us, and us in His will.

"I came that they might have life, and have it abundantly" said Jesus.

Phew, that was a close call.

>>If for example one was a '1 packet a day' smoker.. and also had a 6 pack of stubbies each day of a weekend.. then true repentance would provide an instant pay rise to the value of those debilitating habits....which one left behind.<<

I'm not entirely sure how I managed it, but I gave up booze and cigs without any religious conversion being necessary.

I think this is where your logic collapses every time, Boaz.

People can be good, virtuous, law-abiding, caring, sharing, thoughtful, egalitarian, loving human beings, capable of choosing to do right by their neighbour and at the same time show that they are in total control of their lives, without the slightest vestige of belief in a higher authority dictating their actions.

Well, ok, it was just the cigs...

David,

as a "man of jesus" you must luv all god's creatures? yes?

well they are bonk happy, have been for billions of years [or they wouldn't be here]

I know of no animals who find "guilt" in sex as do christians and some others of human race, but they DO take it seriously because survival of the fittest is what got em here.

So they have enormous PHYSICAL barriers to sex like fights to the death etc, but AFAIK it is only [some] humans that seek to impose PSYCHOLOGICAL barries on themselves AND OTHERS about sex

In fact eg yourself/the Spanish Inquisition etc such people become TOTALLY OBSESSED with the sex OTHERS are having or not having

really makes you wonder when it is suggested we are more intelligent than animals just we can make computers etc

Pericles.. your observation is quite accurate.. I was only examining one aspect of the potential to increase disposable income.

Your personal experience does not change that, nor did I mean to imply that all non Christians are boozers and smokers. I'm just saying that for SOME.. those who do indulge in such ways, and there are plenty of them, repentance will result in financial benefit.

Your own change of life habits must have done that for you also. You did it for your own reasons. No argument with that. It still leaves you in spiritual 'death valley' according to the Gospel. But.. that's your own free choice.

What you did, is explained in Romans 10:3 (though in context it refers to the Israelites/Jews of Pauls day)

3Since they did not know the righteousness that comes from God (your position)

and sought to establish their own, (your reaction)

they did not submit to God's righteousness. (your on-going position)

They central aspect of that is 'they sought to establish their own'

Almost straight out of your post. Bottom line, its nothing new.

As you said in your other mini 'bite' on me in the photography thread, Atheists have diverse opinions.. yes indeed they do, and the clash between Vanilla and Ginx shows just how red hot it can be.

We Christians have a simple solution.. if we disagree we can just move away and build our own group, and many do.

Paul sees that this way "Whether they proclaim Christ out of envy, to hurt me or sincerely, I rejoice that Christ is proclaimed"

Aside from Christ.. those divergent views you mention, could take us 'any'where.

Paul sees that this way "Whether they proclaim Christ out of envy, to hurt me or sincerely, I rejoice that Christ is proclaimed"

Ah this could be the missing link in Leonard Cohen's Hallelujah

You say I took the name in vain
I don't even know the name
But if I did, well really, what's it to ya?
There's a blaze of light
In every word
It doesn't matter which you heard
The holy or the broken Hallelujah

That's quite an admission, Boaz.

When atheists disagree with each other and come to their own conclusions, it is "making it up as you go".

>>they did not submit to God's righteousness. (your on-going position) They central aspect of that is 'they sought to establish their own'<<

When Christians come to their own conclusions - and form yet another sub-sect - it is somehow NOT "making it up as you go"?

>>We Christians have a simple solution.. if we disagree we can just move away and build our own group, and many do<<

How can you possibly pretend that the two situations are somehow different?

Your instant pleading is unconvincing:

>>Aside from Christ.. those divergent views you mention, could take us 'any'where.<<

But if you Christians disagree, somehow your divergent views cannot take you "anywhere"?

How does that reconcile with the wildly divergent views on such topics as homosexuality, women priests, contraception etc. that exist under the framework of "Christianity"?

Don't look down. There's this great big hole in your foot.