Hi David
Look in a perfect world I would agree with you. The AIRC is like the 'industrial Senate' you propose. A forum where all parties could meet with a neutral mediator to determine fair wages and conditions openly and transparently is a worthy ideal but remember workers do not have access to the same resources that employers might - this is where a good union rep can make a difference because they are there to protect the interest of their members. Would this 'Senate' also set the salaries for senior executives and CEOs? :)

Business also belong to unions that act in their interests such as the Business Council of Australia and the various Chambers of Commerce. ie. lobby groups that advocate on behalf of their members. And believe me they do some powerful LOBBYING and have greater access to government (particularly under Howard) than any union I know of.

However, we are not a perfect world and employers are not always fair. Historically, employers have held most of the power in the worker/boss relationship and the only power a worker had was withdrawal of labour (now illegal).

Still looking historically, movements like unionism are not borne out of nothing, it is because of the woeful conditions workers in some industries found themselves eg.very low wages, unsafe working conditions, unreasonably long working hours and child labour.

Conditions today are better largely due to the efforts of unions. Unions, like any organisation of power, have not always behaved with integrity. Neither has business if we are talking about corruption, bribery and lack of ethics. White collar crime is not any less a crime because it is perpetrated by the big end of town.

Bottom line is business is important because it provides jobs but the importance of labour is often undervalued. A business is in it to make a profit but these days a profit is not enough and obscene profits at the expense of fair play just doesn't cut it if we are trying to achieve a win-win situation for both employee and employer.

Some reasons for decline:

1. Trade Unions are an extension of the Labor Party and half the community vote for the OTHER party.

2. Unions at the ground level are often unwilling to represent people, one of their famous "excuses" is "The person you are complaining about is also a Union member so we can't get involved". Unfortunately,most workplace disputes involve a co-worker rather than a Boss.!!

3. Unions are seen as a stepping stone for Labor Party aspirants and our money is simply funding their own aspirations.

4. They are poor at returning calls, following up issues and are a law unto themselves. Who monitors their performance?

Country boy your view on taxes is so strange I need not address your idea of unionism.
But I will I have no defense of bad union actions they happen, yes sometimes some unions act for the wrong reasons.
remember my comment about issues.
PALE your post not unlike most of yours is aimed at hurting me not the issues getting cheap shots at Rudd And your hobby horse of live exports.
Question to you , please do you truly think any one takes anything your group says seriously?
AS mate you are indeed an ambassador for migrants, just maybe you could be a bit more inclusive.
I say this is one country and in My view I will fight to see your group are treated fairly but you find demons in my country I do not.
The ideas some hold about unions are wrong, some unions are to blame.
There is a difference and for more inclusive unions a future.
No changing history unions once had to be from the very left to get results.
We have moved on yet some try to force a radical movement on very much non radical workers like Labor followed the voters and won.
Unions must follow the members or die.

To show the other face of unionism nothing else share my day yesterday.
An hour twenty minutes drive for 7.50 visit with IR manager , talks about Key performance indicators for project by her invitation.
We both gave ground left knowing it would take more visits.
phone rings female traveled 3 hours to big city not paid travel another threated with death by workmate issues fixed.
3 meal room visit all one subject can any one get 100% if work is best under KPI s?
Further meeting this morning.
Phone call from boss, last night a traffic controller on night shift got bashed by 3 persons in a car will I go and find out details?
Doesn't happen every day but I went home 11 pm.
anyone see industrial sabotage there?
Do you know that last boss was so happy to see a foolish bloke turn up who cared?
unions need not be an enemy In fact are nothing less than workplace insurance and you could never believe how many things unions do that are asked for by both boss and members

Belly, if you think I have a strange opinion of taxes, then your knowledge of rudimentary economics must be missing.

Taxes involve a transfer of economic benefit from one party to another. End of story.

Excellent post there Pelican.

You have shown why we still need unions as much as we ever did.

Cheers