Dear Pelican
your suggestion about another 'employee representative body' is well intended of course, but don't you think it kind of just perpetuates the 'them/us' ism of yesteryear?

In my opinion we need something like an Industrial SENATE.. where representatives from all sides are there in equal numbers, and the goal is to achieve a better outcome for the whole company rather than just pit one side against another. A kind of group ombudsman.

What is the union members density world wide and what in Australia?
Union Density
Australia 20.0% 2006
United Kingdom 28.4% 2006
Canada 29.7% 2006
Greece 30.0% 2007
Romania 30.0 % 2005
Italy 33.7 % 2003
Austria 40.0% 2006
Norway 53.0% 2004
Belgium 53.0% 2006
Malta 59.0% 2005
Finland 74.1% 2003
Sweden 78.0% 2006
Denmark 80.0% 2005
Iceland 88.0% 2006
Why the Australian Union Movement is so weak and become weaken? Can it become stronger? Of cause with many ways!
Is the trade Union in decline with both men and women ?
Is the trade Union in decline with both blue-collar and white-collar?
is the trade union in decline with local and migrants?

Antonios Symeonakis
Adelaide

Apart from Gibo each post added too the debate thanks, I could compare our numbers to Church goers but it is not about that.
Yes issues have been used to start wars but a big change is on the way.
I no longer think unions are best served by falling at the feet of its child the ALP.
Howard made it a must but the future?
I have no doubts unions will not die, if they live in todays high wages low unemployment conditions how will they be if we have a true recession?
We however must get in the game.
Better training and selection for officials.
Less overheads maybe less fees.
Cultivate the ability to talk to both sides of politics and work with them.
What negotiator walks into a room and ignores one side of a debate?
Some unions are growing it is true!~
The greatest loss is in extremist unions how can they think workers want IR WAR?
Many may not like it but union are community based donations are heavy and to such as womens refuges hospital clowns you name it members money gives gifts , just maybe we should not spend so freely without asking.
If a members community chest donation by those who wish too was put in place money could come from that not members funds.
If we take the challenge we will grow better stronger and in time bigger.
If not? do not bury us yet but change is not a threat but a promise.
One day yesterday in fact one issue a boss from one of our very biggest construction giants told me our union helmet sticker had to go.

It weakened the helmet he said and put pressure on non unionists to join?
his induction sticker sits on every helmet .
Both stay , see a thousand little things every day not sabotaging the workplace.
Oh we questioned why he insisted men work on Anzac day weekend a banked RDO planned 2 years ago lock down we lost some march in memory other march in mud and unions are bad

I joined a workplace union a few years ago, at the urging of a work colleague. When management wanted to put the workplace cleaning jobs out for tender, we all had a meeting and decided to stike if the tender went ahead. Nobody at the meeting mentioned that the cleaners we had were terrible at their jobs and provided very poor value for money for the firm. So I soon after that left the union.

To me that really summed up unionism (maybe not all unions, maybe some are better than others) - their role seems to be about protecting their existing members at all costs and hang the consequences.

I dare say that an economist would tell you that unions have much the same effect as taxes - introduce inefficiencies into the system, distort outcomes and involve a transfer of benefits from one group to another.

Countryboy,

Thank You. A fair comment.

I was speaking the other day with a Hungry Jacks Manager.

He described what you have to do if someone doesnt want work but wants the wages.

They have to spend up to six grand on= wait for it councling!

Then there has to be some sort of mutual 'agreement' $ if they are to leave.-

Remember the days when people did an honest days work for a honest days pay. Gone forever.

Some of these peoples attitudes were so bad that major companies went off shore.

Make no mistake this country is in a mess exporting all its raw materials 'before value adding' which of course employs its people and keeps the county going.

I might add that is the only reason why they take these poor creatures alive that Kevin Rudd is in full support of.

It wasnt always like that. No indeed his party told a completly different story- pre election. In fact they simply lied.

Trade Unions in Decline?

Well, if so -maybe the public have all read OLO- :)

No I dont think they will decline. I think they will breed like rats in a dark place while keeping us in the dark.

4 Corners programe on Monday night pretty much told it as it is re the unions and their dirty tricks.

Dirty, Sexy Money
Reporter: Sarah Ferguson
http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/content/2008/s2214216.htm

Broadcast: 14/04/2008

When sordid tales of sex and money and development deals spilled out of the Wollongong anti-corruption hearings, Labor luminaries dashed for cover.

They rejected any stain of corruption and, if voters remained sceptical, vowed to reform political donations laws at federal and NSW level.

But the damage was done. Wollongong laid bare the cosy relationships between developers and a NSW Labor machine that long ago had mastered the system of fundraising.

"Many of these people don't see a light on the hill any more," one disillusioned Labor man tells Four Corners. "They see a 200-lot subdivision."

Belly
You wrote ''The greatest loss is in extremist unions how can they think workers want IR WAR?''
Can you give more details about them? Which are the extremist Unions?
The Australian or better the Anglo Saxon model of Unionism has no future. The statistics prove it very easy. In USA the Density is 9% ! It is seemed there are many conservatives and nationalists in Australian Union movement.
The Australian Union movement stand on the white collars and underestimate the blue collars, women and migrants.
World wide the strong unions stands on blue collars, on women and in countries with many migrants on them. If we check the statistics from the union movement world wide we will see that the members of white collars reduced and increased the members from blue collars, you will see that the new members come mainly from women blue collars. For example in Sweden, trade union density among female blue-collar workers increased by 6.1 percentage points, compared with an increase of 2.2 points for their male colleagues
I DISAGREE WITH THE ACTU ON MANY ISSUES AND IF THEY CONTINUE TO IGNORE THE BLUE COLLARS, WOMEN AND MIGRANTS, THEN THEY WILL DESTROY THE AUSTRALIAN UNION MOVEMENT.
Of cause I am member of the union movement but I am not happy with it.
Antonios Symeonakis
Adelaid