“However, if you have extra information about any of the suspects, or if you believe the newspapers have got it wrong, then post it, or take it to the police.” I would be interested to see you article about how all the Melbourne

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/the-melbourne-suspects/2005/11/11/1131578232148.html

There is the list and just about all of them have “Lebanese parents”. Remember all those refugee who came here from Lebanon? We are still paying for them today and will do for many decades to come! But it could have been worse average aussies who just wanted to go to the footy could have paided with their lives!

Here is an interview with your friend vanilla before his arrest.

http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2005/s1430601.htm

Did I mention the fact that these people also send back money to “freedom fighters” in there home countries thus aggravating the problems even more? The tamil tigers are well known for it and I am sure all other groups do it as well thus causing more blood shed more pain and more misery. But hey look on the bright side vanilla that means there will be more refugee for you and that can only be a good think right?

I could go on pointing out your short comings but I am not the sort of person who likes to dig the boot in.

PALE
I am well aware that there is no perfect world but at least we can attempt to try to make it better then what it is now.

As for Habeas corpus, if we introduced this as a system whenever any person is detained, then if a person is wrongly detained they have an opportunity to just fill in their personal details and then they must be presented before a Court. It means that if you, I or for that anyone else was wrongly detailed we could immediately get a hearing before a Court, rather then being locked away and perhaps having to wait years before we can get to a lawyer to proclaim we are not unlawfully in Australia.

Once you locked up in a detention centre it is extremely difficult to get before a court to pursue your release, and so a compulsory to provide a Hebeas corpus application to be provided means that if you desire to pursue this then at least it can avoid a lot of harm.

As for refuges who enter Australia without paperwork, I would take it that the Courts be competent enough to deal with that. If the Court deems more time is needed to appropriately investigate matters then it can order so. However, we should never permit detention without specific orders of a court to order so and for the time period provided for in an order.
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People who oppose refugees to enter the country may perhaps welcome this kind of regime as having politicians involved smells to corruption far too often.
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Also, if refugees are aware that they are subject to a judicial process and not merely pending a public servants decision, then more then likely they will not be so desperate in detention because they know that the Immigration Department then must justify their detention!
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This kind system would have avoided Vivian Alvarez Solon having been wrongly detained/deported and also Cornelia Rau and others being wrongly detained, etc.
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We need to come together in working out a system that provides for all the best solution!

EasyTimes,

The problem I have is that you seem to define the word “refugee” not in a legal sense but in an emotive sense. And you’re using a definition that’s peculiar to you rather than one Australia generally uses. I really don’t understand the paragraph which ends, “Talk about a big hole in our immigration policy!”

Re refugee health, thank you. They’re excellent links and you’re right — refugees do seem to have health problems when they enter the country.

Now, in order to prove your initial point, all you need to do is measure the healthcare costs of the average refugee against the healthcare costs of the average Australia. To do this, you’ll need to factor in those diseases Westerners are more prone to. You may find that one you remove people from developing countries and thus from the threat of communicable diseases, they remain less likely to succomb to the heart disease and cancer that the average overweight Westerner dies of. I don’t know, but I congratulate you on getting closer to proving at least one of your points.

Re AIDS: “Below is one link about hiv to one case which I found with a quick search I am sure you could find more as I have heard of more.”
Sorry, I couldn’t find more — I could only find this one. But I did find several accounts of Australian-born people who have spread HIV.

“ we take in about 15000 per year”
No we don’t.

“150 000 for a decade”
No it’s not.

“(not including back door refugee’s so you can AT LEAST double that figure)”
No we can’t.

It’s pointless having this discussion when you’re just making stuff up. You keep saying “do the maths people!” and yet appear to not have a great grasp on numbers. Over the last 10 years, the humanitarian program has increased from 10 000 to 13 000 places annually. It accounts for 8.8% of the annual immigration intake. Even at the peak of the “boat people,” “back door refugees” numbered in their hundreds and were often deported.

cont...

“Here is an interview with your friend vanilla before his arrest.”
He’s not my friend. If those men were really planning to do what the cops reckon they were planning, then I think them despicable. You are falling in to the classic trap of believing that just because I’m arguing for honesty that means I’m some kind of apologist for cant. (Just as other posters think that if you believe in free speech it really means you’re love Islam. I am very democratic in my dislike of all religions — I just defend their right to bore us all talking about god.)

You are pretending these (alleged) terrorists are refugees not because you have any particular attitude to the terrorists but because you dislike refugees and want to taint them with the terrorist brush. In fact, most refugees are fleeing from the very same regimes that terrorists often seek to defend.

“Are you a totally ignorant vanilla?” “I could go on pointing out your short comings...”
Your nastiness is noted. In another post, you say Bugsy is perhaps picking on your spelling mistakes because he cannot attack your arguments. Similarly, you seem to ramp up the personal insults the shakier your facts gets. I think you really believe you’re right, and you’re obviously not one to look too closely at figures that don’t back up your prejudices. And while your insults do, as intended, hurt, I can live with them. But I think you could strengthen your argument if you forgot about pushing barrows and just tried to investigate the truth.

Anyway, I’ve had enough of this chat, so you can fire away with the viscousness and get the last word. Enjoy.

When I said short comings I meant the short coming of your arguments not you as a person!

With the regards to the link about your friend the terrorist leader yes I was having a dig at you. I could not help myself.

“I really don’t understand the paragraph which ends, “Talk about a big hole in our immigration policy!”

With regards to this statement you make firstly the hole in our immigration policy is with regards to the number of backdoor refugees that come in. That being people who have no skills no education and nothing to give this country. The only reason they can get into the country is buy slipping in the backdoor by having 1. Family already hear. (Successful refugee applicants) or 2. Marrying a refugee.
These people who probably continue to make up tens of thousands of people each year are refugee all but in name.

I do stand by my statement of calling you ignorant due to the fact that you have provided no reasons at all as to why we should continue a program which for all practical purposes achieves nothing. All it does is make people with almost no grasp of politics and social problems feel warm and fuzzy because in there ignorants they think they are making a difference when in all practical purposes they are merely making a drop in the ocean or aggravating the problem. Not including the cost it has to Australia both economically and socially. You can not be taken seriously if all you do is tread water. Make a case for yourself instead of spending all your time trying to find holes in mine

Vanilla you are all heart and no brains! I hope you don’t live life like that as there will be people left right and centre taking advantage of you just like there are hundreds of millions queuing up to take advantage of nations like Australia with there all heart and no brains policies.

“I think you really believe you’re right, and you’re obviously not one to look too closely at figures that don’t back up your prejudices.”

I know I am right as the void of information coming from you in defending of your position is testimony to that.

“your prejudices” I knew in the end you would have to resort to that vanilla but I am surprised it took so long. As always when faced with harsh reality go for a tired warn out old cliché. The sheik taj din al hilaley defense really is a desperate last grasp from someone who cant do any better. This is the year 2008 branding people with cliché does not work anymore vanilla. Facts are what is need.

Here is one last link for you to think about http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7WJeqxuOfQ