A sub topic which started on the "Spiritual or Religious or Both?" thread got my attention.

Whitty made a comment "Why must men share, communicate, romantisize their feelings the same as women. I really reject societies attempts to feminise men."
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=1622#31402

Men suicide at far higher rates that women I thought so maybe we learn from women when it comes to dealing with feelings (although women attempt suicide at higher rates). We also die younger, are jailed more etc. Suicide and lifespan could be see as indicators of how well we are travelling.

Then I thought, does talking about emotions increase or decrease the likelyhood of suiciding for men. A play with google yielded no likely looking research.

I did find an interesting paper from the Wesley mission on suicide in Australia http://www.wesleymission.org.au/publications/r&d/suicide.htm which does not appear to answer my question. It did include the folowing comment

"An analysis of the most recent Australian Bureau of Statistics suicide rates by the Australian Institute for Health and Welfare dispels the widely held belief that suicide is primarily a problem among Australian youth. Their findings show that the rise in male suicide has been almost entirely due to an increase in the rates for males aged over the age of 20."

Any thoughts on the role expressing feelings plays in mens mental well being?

Are the ones suiciding those who talk about their feelings, those who deal with feelings another way or does the expression of feelings make no difference?

Is there a better way for men to deal with the feelings stuff than "share, communicate, romantisize their feelings the same as women" as Whitty put it?

R0bert

I am no expert RObert but instinctively feel that a person who is comfortable in seeking help or expressing their feelings might be less at risk of suicide. As far as men go, you cannot change people – they are who they are but education could be the key.

There was a ‘Landline’ feature on depression in rural areas. The town of Sheffield in Tasmania was highlighted as a town which had set up an action plan to fight this increasing epidemic after ten of their local farmers committed suicide.

See:
http://www.abc.net.au/landline/content/2006/s1794064.htm

http://www.abc.net.au/landline/content/2006/s1940302.htm

The Sheffield plan sought to educate people in recognising the symptoms of depression so that help could be offered before it was too late. The key was the whole community was involved which helped remove the stigma from depression as the increase in the number of men seeking help rose.

The statistics in your link highlight that men and are more at risk of suicide. The sad thing is that these statistics are probably too low. A policeman friend of mine told me that some road accidents he attended were thought to be suicide (lack of other evidence such as skid marks to indicate swerving and after information obtained from family members) but could not be proven absolutely so were categorised as accidents. There are also many more attempted suicides some probably failed attempts some perhaps a signal for help.

Young men seem to be most at risk. I am not sure why – there are a lot of mixed messages for boys. Their roles are not as clear as they might have been years ago and they fall behind girls at school, they are confused about masculinity, the pressure now in the job/career market to do well at school, how to share their feelings and problems, effects of family dysfunction and many other issues I am sure that I am not qualified to speculate. The good news is that these issues have been recognised and there are now programs targeted at boys so hopefully these will have some effect.

One rather hopeful aspect to the suicide rate of young men is: you may have heard that Australian statistics were the highest in the world for males under 18? Or for males under 20? Now for young men under 25? This is because it was recognised, as a matter of urgency, that we were losing far too many young men under 18 and so a rigorous campaign was undertaken by the Department of Mental Health, which has had pretty good results. However, as that original demographic grows up and ages, they take that statistic with them. Thus those original "under 18s" are now young men under 25, but the statistics for younger males is dropping.

The problem appears to be not so much that men won't talk. They do. The problem is that they will not seek help. While they will discuss their problems with a mate, girlfriend, mother etc.(sadly very few discuss it with their fathers and, indeed, often their fear that fathers will find out is what keeps them from seeking help) they will not take it that step further and get professional help. This is also a problem with older men who die from testicular cancer etc. because they will not seek timely help.

What Pelican said is also true: risk-taking behaviour is often a symptom of mental problems. Thus, those who self-harm for example,but are made to stop by well-meaning parents or friends, will engage in the kind of behaviour which is far more likely to have tragic results.

"Men suicide at far higher rates that women I thought so maybe we learn from women when it comes to dealing with feelings (although women attempt suicide at higher rates)."

If women attempt suicide at higher rates I am unclear as to how a male attribute can be considered the cause of suicide. To my way of thinking the different death rates must be due to the effectiveness of the means men employ. Indeed if women were as adept at killing themselves the logical extrapolation seems to be that more would die then men. The relevant male attribute appears to relate to means of suicide then wish to attempt suicide.

My guess is that getting on a quiet stretch of road, holding down the accelerator and lining up a tree or shooting yourself in the head is just more typical for a male to do then women. I'm guessing women take less aggressive means such as sleeping tablets and are thus more likely to be rescued.

What I'm saying is I am not clear as to how your data supports your argument. Can you please explain that aspect?

Great posts guys.

Excellent thread you have started here R0bert.

Mjpb

Your thoughts are most erudite indeed, it is true that women use less violent methods to top themselves than men, hence the lack of success(?). Have had personal experience here.

We need to be looking at issues of self-esteem in a more holistic manner than we have been at present. There is still too much stigma attached to mental 'disease' despite campaigns like Beyond-Blue.

The pressure on boys to be some idealised version of manliness, limits them from seeking help as has been pointed out. Women have set-up support groups and men are finally starting to do the same. Men and boys need a space where they can just let loose with their thoughts - not the kind of drum-beating stuff, but real talk with male mentors who can give rational feed-back.

I hope that this discussion can generate some positive outcomes, R0bert, rather than degenerating as so many discussions do. Mental illness does not discriminate and neither should we in tackling this often hidden disease.

Fractelle,

Thank you very much.

"The pressure on boys to be some idealised version of manliness, limits them from seeking help as has been pointed out. Women have set-up support groups and men are finally starting to do the same. Men and boys need a space where they can just let loose with their thoughts - not the kind of drum-beating stuff, but real talk with male mentors who can give rational feed-back."

I agree completely to all the points packed in there. I suspect alot of the current groups are just drum beating gimicky things.