Well, as I said on the other thread, I don't think making men feel as though they 'should' be more open in their feelings is the answer.

Some blokes just ain't wired that way.

Making them aware they 'can' speak to mates is a good approach, but not all mates are equipped to handle it and I guess if they don't want to change I don't see that forcing men to be more open is the answer.

Ideally, sure, they should be able to discuss their pressing issues with close friends - but, perhaps, those friends aren't necessarily male. I guess I interact in a different manner with male and female friends and I'm probably more likely to discuss different things.
I don't see that as a bad thing and it doesn't mean I value either any less - and no, it doesn't mean the discussions with the lads are just about sex, cars n' booze ;).
Discussions with women you're involved with are a different matter altogether.

That being said, some pressing issues remain private - I don't think it's always because people feel they can't discuss these issues.

Sometimes, I think they just don't want to.

That mightn't come across as the 'right' way of dealing with things, but the attitude that every man should be more... I don't know, more chatty or even just more open... it just doesn't ring true for everyone.

Though yes, I agree that it's important that men feel they 'can' discuss emotional things with mates. I draw the line at the idea that they 'should'.

mjpb, I don't really have an argument on this, rather I'm trying to find what others know on the topic and see if I can develop a better understanding from others thinking. It came out of my thinking about comments on another thread but the discussion did not belong on that thread.

I initially assumed that learning to talk about feelings more openly would be beneficial but rising male suicide rates during a period when men have increasing freedom to talk about feelings gave me cause to wonder what is known on the topic.

I'm not suggesting that freedom to talk about feelings is a root cause of suicide, rather wondering what impact doing so has on someone already close to the edge.

In regards to the differing rates. I'm uncertain how good the research behind it is but material I've seen in the past suggests that a significant number of failed suicide attempts are cries for help rather than actual suicide attempts. People who pop a bunch of pills and ring a friend to get them to come around.

I've been the friend for one such attempt and it really scared me how close I came to being too late (I was not told why my friend wanted me to drop over).

The differing means used by men and women certainly account for a proportion of the difference in success rates as well.

R0bert

R0bert

Careful how you judge things, you stated, "I'm uncertain how good the research behind it is but material I've seen in the past suggests that a significant number of failed suicide attempts are cries for help rather than actual suicide attempts. People who pop a bunch of pills and ring a friend to get them to come around."

Sometimes people really have had enough and really do want it all to end. Problem was that the cries for help went unheeded long before the suicide attempt to the point where suicide seemed like the only way out.

A favourite movie of mine is "Cool Hand Luke", starring Paul Newman, in it he uttered a line that has great resonance for many:

"What we have here is a failure to communicate."

Dear Robert,

Like the feminine role, the masculine role supposedly, is now more ambiguous, more flexible, more subject to interpretation by the individual. But is it?

Bob Ellis, ABC 'Unleased,' states, five Australian men suicide each day and only one woman. Why is this so?

Ellis explains that, " ...men have images of themselves, as conqueror, provider, breadwinner, football star, self-made billionaire, chick magnet, local hero, which if they fail at, darken their mood. There are so many things they can fail at, so many contests they are in, so many medals they will not win, so many promises to keep, that the gun in the drawer comes to mind pretty frequently, or its equivalent...

The women watch as the men crack up. They hide the whisky bottle.
They hide the rifle. They join the prayer group. They make the begging phone calls. They investigate the necessary medication. They cop the odd belt in the face. They stand by their man. This is what ...many women do. They cope, they deal with the children, they rally round. They bury their egos and keep the show on the road.

But men are warriors in the end. They need the testing battles that will prove their worth or end their lives.

They are challenge-seeking animals, heat-seeking missiles, fools for pointless contest. They need the victory at darts, at pool, at horse-betting, marlin fishing, stock-market speculation that affirms them...

Any change of address, any loss of job, any default in a mortgage payment... any office downsizing that targets you or your lifestyle, is a sanity-threatening trauma, an ego-diminishing kick in the guts, a personal catastrope..."

That's what Bob Ellis tells us at:

http://www.abc.net.au/unleased/stories/s2198322.htm

It's an article that may be of interest to other posters.

Having read it - I feel that if men would 'spill their guts' and not keep it inside - if they were able to vent their feelings to someone,
it would help. It certainly wouldn't hurt.

I dunno foxy, it seems a little one sided. At the risk of beginning another gender war, which is the last thing we need, I'd make the point that the stoic image presented there can just as easily be occupied by men - remaining silent, picking up the pieces as life throws barbs at their wife.
Women have often played a supporting role when men were the 'breadwinners' as it were, but what of the common image of the men who go all out to support their wives during pregnancy, racing off to the store in the middle of the night to find something to satisfy a craving?
Note here, I'm not arguing this is wrong, quite the contrary. But it's another perspective.

Yes, men are perhaps more likely to hold emotional matters inside - but perhaps, it isn't the handicapped approach that is cited there.
It's just as likely that men are in fact, shielding their loved ones from the things you mention.

The implication there is that this approach will always fail. I'll agree it's not the best idea and discussion is the best way forward - but the idea, that the man who stays silent inevitably ends up hurting those around him, I think, isn't fair.

So yes - men should know they 'can' talk about these things, but the pervasive attitude that men who don't are somehow emotionally handicapped, isn't right.

Fractelle: Bingo!

Robert: - as I said, the intensive campaign and the measures that were introduced for handling mental issues seem to have had an effect - but its not nearly enough, is it?

I think the message people don't want to hear is that we are all responsible. Our actions and attitudes do impact upon others and so many of us don't give enough consideration to this fact.

The other point to consider is that none of us is immune. People who have good relationships with their children, or who are convinced they have done the right thing by them frequently assert that their children would never do something like that. Unfortunately this attitude is easily picked up by their offspring who use it to compound the guilt/hopelessness or whatever lack they are fighting against.

Rather than "At least none of my kids would do anything like that" we should be getting the message across that "No matter what, I'm always here for you ". Of course, we all FEEL like that. But do we convince our kids or, by openly dissing (for example) homosexual persons, drug takers, those who aren't very clever etc. etc. are we unconsciously closing doors to our children?

One constantly hears the refrain "I feel so guilty. Mum and Dad think I'm so....strong/brave/good/intelligent/talented/balanced/sensible..." the list goes on. Then on meeting parents one finds them shocked and incredulous that their child would have thought they would not understand their particular dillemma.

So another thing which keeps people from talking is the fear that one is not living up to expectations. The tragic thing is that often those "expectations" honestly do not exist.