Good to see you still posting Foxy. I think you’re quite right and male infertility could do some strange things to the psyche of those confronted with it, but I’m not sure how that relates to Hasbeen (I can only assume there is some personal knowledge of his particular brand of male discontent).

“Most men would need to understand why they are infertile.”

While I can’t truthfully claim total neutrality on your gendered outline of the supposed differences in perception and reaction to men’s reproduction dilemmas, I could perhaps add, that it could be worse (or better), depending on a man’s frame of mind.

What if the infertile man was raising his children as a good father and husband, only to find out some distance down his life’s journey, there’s a little thing euphemistically referred to by women as false paternity attribution? And what of that partially infertile male? Guess women will be first to tell him his glass is somewhat full, rather than partially empty

Without a doubt the fact that men are conditioned to keep their feelings to themselves is one contributing factor of suicide. When I say conditioned I am talking about the socialization of boys vs. girls.

Girls form close bonds with friends and they talk about everything and anything that is vaguely on their radar. By contrast, boys tend to run in a pack like gang which by its nature precludes the opportunity for boys to talk about what is on their minds. This conditioning then follows them into adulthood and the inability to talk freely and openly about feelings sets the risk factors for suicide in place.

Suicide is all about emotional pain and wanting to stop this pain. One way to assist in preventing suicide is to talk about what is happening. Again with females it comes much easier however with males the risk factor of not talking is already there.

On a positive note- issues such as depression and suicide have become much more talked about in society today thereby enabling signs of depression and warning signs of suicide to be more readily identified.

Furthermore, male suicide rates are apparently on the decline thanks to health policy initiatives introduced in the mid to late 90’s.

http://www.sciencealert.com.au/news/20082003-17075-2.html

It is a dark and lonely place to be at when the thought of suicide is being considered. It is only by talking that it can be prevented.

2b perfectly_honest......

I don't think I've ever shared 'talked about' the things which are most close to my inner being.. problems...I'd probably talk about things further from my core.

I just feel that If I can't resolve the issue myself.. to goto someone else would be abrogating my own independance and making myself dependant on them... never a good move if it can be avoided.

On issues such as medical stuff..of course..I goto the doc. I know myself well enough to answer the other questions "Why did I do such and such"...or.."why_do_people_react_this_way_or_that_to_me"

The most frustrating aspect of life is when you become the 'bad guy' in other peoples minds who don't know all the facts, they just 'blame' you anyway. In such cases, there is no where to turn except 'others' who can reinforce or rebutt your own understanding of the issue.

I was told just a couple of days ago that I was not 'compassionate' by a woman who had horses on my property..I terminated her access so I can get other very hungry horses to a different section of the property to FEED them.. as the owners (one of them being a friend of hers) were not doing it. Then, when I described the owner (the one who is her friend) of one horse as 'irresponsible' for not feeding it or not even contacting me about it... welllll.... I got the 'your not compassionate' speech. Then, to make matters worse, she contacted the RSPCA .. about who? the owner? Nope.. about ME... for allowing the neglected horses to go hungry.. (which I could'nt do anything about because HER horses were in the way of access to food and trying to keep hers 'in' but let the others 'out' was logistically impossible.

So.. even though our next meal could depend on the money from agistment... (not that the woman asked, but it has been that tight at times) I'm the bad guy for trying to get payment out of these people and to get them to feed their horses.

Aaah..fun times :)

This has been a most interesting thread. Thank You Robert for bringing it up. It's a topic that's so close to home. I said that I wouldn't bring up 'personal stuff' again on this Forum. But if it helps someone out there, well here goes...

My husband was told quite a few years ago that he had a 'low sperm count.' He was devastated. He's the type of man that could not discuss personal matters with other people (not even me). So he kept things bottled up - with devastating results. He started to drink heavily... We were told to 'adopt' because my chances of becoming pregnant were minimal. My gyno - even wanted to put me on 'fertility pills' (moron). Then low and behold - five years later - I got pregnant - and had our two boys. Bliss!

Counseling - or being able to vent his feelings - I know would have helped not only my husband - but our relationship. It was the way my husband was brought up. Men just simply did not talk about 'personal stuff.' They simply 'wore it in silence.' Otherwise they weren't considered to be 'men.'

My God, what we went through! And it certainly would have helped us both to share in the crisis that my husband was going through.

Never mind - things aren't perfect (what marriage is - except maybe in the movies?). But over the years - we've learnt that talking does help... not talking - builds up barriers - that destroy people and relationships.

Thankfully - we've survived - now we have other problems to deal with - but I'm determined - none of us is ever going to 'go it alone!'
again.

Anyway, I apologise in advance for being so personal - but if it helps someone else on the Forum - I'll be glad I did it!

Take care.

I think that the fact that Foxy felt she had to apologise - more than once - for her post is illustrative of the problem. Why should we think there's something wrong with talking about the experiences that shaped us or made us who we are?

So, o.k, there are those who prefer to keep it inside. The thing is a lot of them, deep down, feel that is the 'correct' way to behave. That stoicism equals strength and fortitude and all the values which are good for society while those who don't feel the same are weak and self-indulgent. Therefore, no matter how flucked up their lives may be, at least the stoics are doing the 'right' thing by not burdening anyone.

When I ask my students to use words to describe a man the words strong and brave are always top of the list. In describing a woman gentle and talkative always appear. So keeping everything bottled up equals manly virtues and letting it out is equated to femininity.

So that Foxy, who really knows that this is all outmoded b.s. still feels compelled to apologise to the brave souls out there who are doing the right and manly thing by exhibiting the correct sort of stoicism that built up empires?

Until we can truly admit that we all shares values like strength and weakness, introversian and extroversian, honesty and deceit, we are going to go on having these discussions and they will go on being complicated by underlying themes of masculinity and femininity, right and wrong. People who keep their feelings in are neither stronger nor weaker, exclusively masculine or shamingly feminine; nor are they right or wrong.

But they do tend to suicide more.

Any thoughts on writing explanation notes before the event.

Perhaps it may help explain and prevent it ??