Since I'm a bloke I infer that I'm immune to the "rash" :O

Boazy: "I think men are the 'crusaders' women are the 'carers'.

Women operate within the freedom and security which men guarantee by their protection of the society."

I know it's an obvious bait, but sometimes Boazy is positively Neanderthal.

Since Vanilla found my points hard to follow (read more carefully/slowly?) perhaps this recent news will serve as an additional example:

"Iraqi women in 'national crisis' since invasion"
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23333436-1702,00.html

Hmmm.. so how are the *men* doing? They're not in "national crisis"?? Honestly, where are the articles saying, "Iraqi men in 'national crisis' since invasion"? It's just laughable how men are by default the (and historically?) simple statistics or non-entities when these stories come up. At least these women can be thankful for not having been shot dead on sight like men of all ages right down to the age of 12 or 13 during active military operations... it's these kinds of omissions overall that build the picture of men being expendable and less valuable, as the perpetrators and criminals, or simply as people not worth counting....it's like the sound of a tree falling when nobody is nearby question. if there is no media attention then people do not even give it a passing thought. it simply doesn't exist. So your left with these headlines saying women this...women that...such and such is a dark age for women....female circumcision, my how barbaric...the only thing that really comes close to that is the overly abused "but think of the children" catch cry

Like it or not, Boaz, you are painting yourself into a corner where the only response to your original question can be yes, Boaz is sexist and yes, it is his culture that makes him so.

Let's face it, anyone who opens proceedings with the remark "I was chatting with the chick serving..." and then asks the question "is this sexist?" is leading with his chin - well bearded though it may be.

Most of your other posts have been similarly humorous - except of course when you tried to sidetrack us into your racist observations on "Eastern" cultures - but the last is a classic.

>>I could have taken a different approach.. calling her what she really was "An inconsiderate retard who knows nothing about how to park a vehicle" To which the only valid response would be 'ur right'<<

I had this instant mental image of you, in the same situation at the servo, only this time the offender was a 6'4" Samoan rugby player. What would you have said to him, I wonder?

If you did indeed have the courage to point out his error - which I have absolutely no doubt that you would - how would you have chosen your words? "ah, islander drivers", or "inconsiderate retard who knows nothing about how to park a vehicle"?

Do tell.

Whitty - welcome. I have to agree with Vanilla's interpretation of your argument.

You made a lot of sense and had me convinced right up to point no. 4 where you could not resist using the term "female sympathy fest" and other comments in your last paragraph. Again "men are demonised" but no mention of the women who are battered. In advertisements about DV services for women, who do you think are the perpetrators? If we want to be totally PC we can paint the man as some sort of illusion or ghostly figure so as not to offend but for what purpose.

If your mission is to seek equal representation on these issues, it is not served by distorting statistics or diminishing the experiences of women.

You are guilty of exactly what you were so sincerely arguing from points no. 1-3, which have a lot of merit.

People become defensive when they are attacked, it is human nature but to assume and argue that women are supportive of men's issues as long as it does not intefere with women's issues is in itself a very narrow view of what women are about (and yes I am sure you can dig up a link about one radical feminist who hates men).

Men need to get out there and lobby for better support and advocacy groups - women did it with the feminist movement when governments were all but ignoring the issues. We women can support you (just as many men did with the feminists), but we can't do it for you because if we tried it would only be met with derision and mistrust if the responses on this discussion are any reflection of the rest of society.

Another point is that I am a woman so it is natural to see things from a woman's point of view, ditto for men and I guess we can't really do much about that other than try and see things from the other person's viewpoint.

boaz: "Women operate within the freedom and security which men guarantee by their protection of the society."

Presumably this protection is from other human influences... so.. the women need the men to protect them from other men?

Even if this is false, your contention is flawed - if men didn't exist, then wouldn't it just be women? Then wouldn't it be women protecting themselves from other women?
Then why would it be any different to men?

So yes, I can quite easily deny this 'absolute fact of life.'

Pericles: "ah, islander drivers"

Actually, Boazy, what if she'd been an Asian woman? Would you have stuck "aah... woman driver" or would you have gone with the more contemporary "aah... Asian driver"? To my mind, "aah... Asian woman driver" is just too clunky, but if anyone had the chutzpah to carry it off, it would be you. One thing that I can't accept is Pericle's subliminal suggestion that when the woman in question said "sexist" she actually meant "tosser".

Pericles, really.

Steel, I was joking, I do get your point that men's issues and vulnerabilities can get lost in culture and I agree with it - as you'll find I've mentioned many times on OLO in different threads. I'm with the blokes on changing perceptions about DV. I just don't believe in the whole feminist conspiracy thing. Or if I do believe in it, I'm so annoyed they I haven't got a piece of the action that I'm officially denying it exists.

Honestly, you think I'm thick, you've called my comments "superfluous and mundane" on another thread - I'm not objecting, I'll fight for your right to call me whatever you like, and I of course have the luxury of knowing you're wrong, but jeez.