No problems with girls doing Home Ec or boys doing workshop as long as the electives are open to girls and boys. Some of the best Chefs are male. :) If boys gravitate to one and girls to the other well so be it. We are different, us girls and boys.

It is interesting that you use feminist as a negative term - I think your definition must vary from (some) others on this forum Boazy. Personally I think there are enough gender wars and we should consume ourselves first with human rights wouldn't you think?

As far as the War Memorial photographs Boazy, this is a bit of a selective pick to suit your argment. Values in the East and West are different because we have different cultures but you cannot generalise about either Western or Eastern values because there are many differences between the US and Australia as well as between Taiwan and Japan. I am not sure what you are inferring.

I got lost in Tokyo once (early 1980s) and a lovely elderly gentleman took me back to the train station and paid my ticket and saw me safely on my way. As it happens he was an ex-pilot in the war and his English was pretty good. He was one of the nicest and most humblest gentleman I have had the pleasure to meet.

Boaz wrote: "It seems that there is a vacuum in many young and old lives, a vacuum of values and meaning.. exacerbated by what appears to be an absense of moral compass in education.

I wonder if there would be value in contrasting some values in other cultures with ours ?

The classic example I use these days, is the 2 contrasting photo's from the Australian war Memorial.
1/ showing a Japanese soldier with raised Samurai sword, about to behead a kneeling blindfolded digger POW.
2/ Then there is one of 2 diggers, with a Jap POW, one digger is supporting his back, the other is feeding him.

Personally, and rightly or wrongly, I link this historically to the spiritual heritage of "Love your enemies, do good to those who persecute you" which of course comes from Christ."

Yes, you definitely link "wrongly". However, I agree that your rabidly prejudiced "comparison" does, as you point out, demonstrate a vacuum of values and meaning. It's deliberately manipulative and despicably nasty.

Oh, let me guess Boazy. You think I'm being "PC", right?

It happens every time......

Boazy derails his own threads. Do they teach you "bait and switch" in missionary school? It's really annoying.

Bugsy: "Do they teach you "bait and switch" in missionary school? It's really annoying."

I'm sure they do. Boazy does it all the bloody time here - and you're right, it's annoying.

No wonder nobody with a brain takes him seriously.

Pelican... yep..I tend to agree there. Electives open.

Interestingly, your experience of a helpful former pilot is one of the richest of human experiences. I do the same for people from other countries in trouble here. It would be quite wrong to generalize 'Asian' cultures or Eastern..on every level of behavior. Limiting the discussion only to behavior in war would also be a bit restrictive.

Vanilla, somewhere in the midst of that invective and abuse, there are some notworthy points, pity you had to camoflage them to well with all the personal attack.

Yes of course my pics/examples were selective. But they are quite valid on the issue of war conduct. The differences in approach between Japanese and Allies to enemy soldiers captured could not be more stark. Even the Germans tended to take a more humane approach than that Japanese. The Germans again, have that Western historical link to Christian tradition.

Japanese Military culture, goes back to the Samurai times, and its values. Our Military culture (The West) goes back to the Knights.. Chivalry, and of course our religious history and associated values.
There have always been incidents of brutality when people become unhinged from their historic values. (Brits in India, Crusades)

The Battle of Gate Pa in NZ also demonstrated this value 'Love your enemies' where the Chief (a She) of the Maoris being attacked by the British/Whites, went about serving the wounded, dying soldiers with water while under attack. The Maori's considered themselves Christian.

BACK TO THE TOPIC... of culture and complementary gender roles.

The term "feminism" is by nature 'sexist' in a negative way. Suggesting a promotion of the interests of only one gender. Far better to embrace a term more inclusive and less confrontational.

Simple answer - when it comes to most of these things, it's not right or wrong.

I get your point - why should it be wrong for a bloke to like blokey stuff like cars, and a girl to like girly things?

It isn't. It isn't right either. It just is. They can like whatever the hell they damn well want.

There are of course, limitations. We tend to treat transvestites pretty strangely because they push the gender roles a little further than usual. I don't tend to have any problem with it, it's their business, but I do wonder why they bother when they're going to cop unnecessary flak in many places.

So, in the case of transvestites, there probably still are issues with gender roles.

Your point however, boaz, is the reverse. You're implying there's a perception that there's something wrong with having stereotypical gender roles, and that isn't right.

Well, I don't think that attitude exists at all and it seems like more of a trojan horse to reassert traditional gender roles, but that's just my take on it.