Eep. Notice I advertently mixed up the period od McCarthyism. Apologies.

Problem is, you speak of rights that go against the "law of the land" versus individual rights, as if the law of the land is solid and unyielding, whereas human rights laws aren't.

As it happens, many of these anti-discrimination laws also happen to BE the law of the land, but I'll let that slide for now.

The laws are to ensure everybody is treated pretty fairly in a manner that ensures society can continue to function.

Problem here, boaz, is that the minor incidents which you keep citing as evidence of some kind of subversive PC agenda, are an inevitable side effect of having laws that protect against discriminating against minorities.

I'm sure you're not so blinkered as to believe that minority groups in Australia will never be persecuted, if there's no legislation to tell people they shouldn't do that.

Tell me this, boaz - issues of the alleged onslaught of Islam aside, do you think it would be acceptable for an employer to say "nope, don't want to hire you. I hate black people."

There's the argument that employers should be able to hire whoever they want. I mean, they're creating the job, right?

What happens when the owner of a large company decides he dislikes a certain race, or belief?
What if we had a political party, that expressly decided it hated certain races or religions, and decided that it was going to run for government on the basis that we should round up all Jewish people?

You claim that these incidents are indicative of a submissive attitude that leaves us beholden to minorities.

Bulldust.
The things of which you speak are a minor side effect of a system that is doing very well at ensuring all of us get a fair crack without mistreating minorities.

It's a sliding scale that will inevitably be imperfect, but if the ideal point is at the middle of the ruler, then we're only a few millimetres to either side of that point.

Your dire warnings look more like scaremongering.

Dear Boazy,

Listen to what TRTL had to say. You are scaremongering.

I hate it when you go off on a tangent with all this negativity.
It doesn't make sense. Why do you do it?

If you keep feeding your mind with negative dialogue - what do you suppose is going to happen?

How long would you expect to keep a friend if you did the same thing?

Someone please give BD his medication, or check that its the right one

Gibo, "Havent you noticed the world is morally falling to pieces."

No I haven't and I'm trying to work out if you need to change suburbs, churches and/or what you fill your mind with.

My world is making progress with many of the old injustices being dismanteled. In my world we are working towards a time when each of us has the same freedoms to make the most of our abilities and drives regadless of race, gender etc. In my world people do not tolerate many of the abuses and injustices that marked times past. Some still exist and sometimes we are slow to move but mostly we are moving.

There are some things which are not working as well as I might like but from what I can tell those have been with us throughout time, it's just we can talk about them more honestly now and maybe have a chance at changing the harmful ones.

The parts of the world where I don't see moral progress are those parts which cling most fiercly to old thiestic dogma's and beliefs.

No Gibo, the world is not falling to pieces morally. We are caring more about a morality that is about how we treat others rather than a morality which is about who put what in which hole. Your penticostal pastors might want to tell you that the world is falling to pieces but that's marketting spin rather than truth.

R0bert

Gibo,TRTL...and FOXY....

All of you make good sense.. no problem with that.

But for CJ's sake.. no national repentance this time old son.

TRTL.. "does human rights legistlation go TOO FAR"? "Skin color"..tick. "creed"..aaaah...

<THE PHILOSPHICAL QUESTION>

THE PROBLEM comes.. in the area of 'creed', and 'culture'.

EXAMPLE.. 'differing cultures'.

You see.. 'tolerance' MUST.. repeat MUST.. have limits...and thats the core of this issue. It's what I'm digging for.

WHO...decides where those limits are? We aussies or.. some remote body like the UN. And..DOES that body have 'other' reasons for promoting the HR agenda?

If a 'creed' such as the 'Children of God' (David Moses Berg) of the 60s has adult child sexual interaction as part of its thing..... are we not being 'intolerant' by trying to clamp down on such things based on our culture and also our creed? You see..its only my CREED which tells me such things are "wrong". (Just as it is in the 'creed' of others saying it is 'right')

Now.. we could discuss the specifics till the cows come home, but it won't solve the primary core issue.. DO WE (as Australians) in PRINCIPLE have the 'human right' to preserve and protect our culture, based on our creed in some cases, and simple history in others.. from encroachment, attack, infringment and undermining?

So... 'do we...punks'? :) (ru feeling lucky)

Once we can agree on principle.. we can discuss specifics.

FOXY dear.. "I live for this stuff" :) Give me a choice of being 'rich' and changing the world.. and I think you know which I'll choose.. thats why when I worked out my OLO efforts have cost me around $28,000 in time.. it doesn't bother me.

Gah. Funny that my corrections seem to have the most typos. In the last post: 'Inadvertent' not 'advertent' and 'of' not 'od'.

Anyhow.

No, apparently we can't agree boaz, because as I pointed out in the last post, the things of which you speak are the minor side effects.

Riddle me this, boaz - in western societies throughout the world, do you think there has ever once, been a time, when there weren't a small proportion of groups acting in a manner that the rest of us might find abhorrent?

That's the price we pay for living in a reasonable society. There has to be some leeway for groups we find unpleasant, or we find ourselves cracking down at the slightest provocation.

Which appears to be precisely what you want. Well, to hell with that. If it's a choice between handing a massive amount of power to our government, or handing a very little bit to minorities in the form of these human rights, then I'll take the latter.

And for all your dire warning of an encroaching threat, to that I say, those same warnings have been yelled from soapboxes by the paranoid in every generation. All that changes is the label of the enemy.