"Pain and perceptions of pain are different, I've learnt that."

Of course, Yabby. That's probably why you didn't inform us that 600 animals died on-board, on one ship alone, this financial year.

Your inability to emerge from the realms of sadism, would convince you that these 600 animals had a ball in the throes of death.

And no doubt you would have gained a kick from learning that 107,600 animals were incinerated on the ships of shame. believing they became really excited about the prospect of being burnt alive on the high seas.

Hello Mr Rudd......may we send these details to the lodge for your perusal?

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C02E4DF143BF934A3575AC0A960958260

OMG, trust Dickie to bring up that old chestnut! Dickie I remind
you that the Titanic and many other ships sank, killing thousands
of people, but did we give up shipping or improve ships? What
about thousands dying in plane crashes, millions in car crashes?
Yet we still drive cars, fly in planes, just try to improve them and make
them safer. Do you have any common sense at all? :)

Yes, some livestock die. They die in paddocks, in yards, feedlots,
in transport. Wild animals die too, thats life, it will happen
to you too. Read "Stock Diseases" by Brightling to understand all
the diseases that can affect livestock and no, they are not yet
all on a Medicare plan.

Perhaps you should go farming for a bit, to learn to understand and
accept nature. But then given that you think that David Attenborough
is extreme, perhaps the real problem is your world perception,
not the world and how it is.

When it comes to livestock, its a question of what is acceptable.
If we look at the cattle trade, something like 99.7% of cattle arrived
safely last year. Those are pretty good figures. With sheep its
over 99%. Again, extremely good figures. They are getting better
too.

Yup, some sheep just refuse to eat, usually merinos, who are not
really bright at the best of times. But then some people refuse
to eat too, they die.

Given that you are totally against people farming livestock in
the first place, no matter what I say, nothing will convince you.
Thats fine, its not my fault that you live by a flawed philosophy :)

"When it comes to livestock, its a question of what is acceptable.
If we look at the cattle trade, something like 99.7% of cattle arrived
safely last year. Those are pretty good figures. With sheep its
over 99%. Again, extremely good figures. They are getting better
too." (Yabby)

Oooh....that does sound good Yabby. Your Father of Sadism (Marquis) would be delighted.

Now lets see.......one percent of 4,140,069 live sheep exports for 2006/07 equals 41,400 dead sheep.

And 0.3 percent of 675,732 live cattle exports for 2006/07 equals 2,027 dead cattle.

Now 41,400 plus 2,027 equals 43,427 dead animals.

So in one year alone, 43,427 defenceless animals endured a gruesome but avoidable death on the ships of shame.

43,427 DEATHS!

Congratulations on your manipulative spin of the facts, Yabby.

Mr Rudd....have you arrived at the Lodge......are you listening?

Ah, there is your problem Dickie, your dealing with death.
Perhaps you are just terrified of it, like many. But of course
its not avoidable, as you would like to imagine.

In NZ, when they have a cold snap at lambing, millions of
young lambs die from exposure to the weather. That makes
deaths on any ship look totally insignificant. In Australia,
they reckong around 5% of the sheep flock die in paddocks, from
various causes from snake bite, dog attacks, diseases, fly strike,
you name it. Thats 5 million deaths. In Australia, we shear sheep
and cold snaps can kill them by their thousands and do in most
years.

In the wild, every day, tens of thousands of animals die of
hunger, disease, thirst, eaten by other animals, you name it, it
happens.

Is it avoidable? If you don't risk living then you don't risk
dying, thats the only way. People like you often think that
many animals would be better having no life, then having had
a life. Most sheep in fact lead most of their lives free range,
quite happily. They are fed in droughts, water is provided, worms
are treated, etc. etc. They have far more contented lives then
many humans and then many wild animals.

But death will happen one way another, to them, as it will to
you. Get used to it, when you fall off the proverbial perch,
the undertaker and flower sellers will be rubbing their hands
in self interest. Thats the reality. Closing your eyes and
wishing it would be different, is not going to change it.

Yabby
Why dont you just be honest and say like many other farmers you dont give a SH what happens to these animals as long as you continue to get an extra twenty bucks a head.

Go on you can say it. We know thats a fact anyway. It might even give you some more credability.

You keep saying nobody wants to work in WA.
To bad Yabby because there are plenty on welfare that are going to have to get a job.
Now they can choose bewtween IT jobs plumbers electrians bonners slaughtermen yard people stock handlers plastics manufacturing carboard as well packers drivers adminstration persons and dozens more.

You have no concern for the next generation if not cruelty to animals.
Cant you see the way the world is going?
Are you so blind you dont know china is in terrible finiacial trouble.
We buy heaps of stuff from China Yabby as well as other countries.
As they say- Clever race the Chinease.
They operate the same way as the big crime bosses peddling their drugs.

Get um hooked and dependant first then put the prices up.
Millions Of Ozzies starving to death will be the picture down the track!
Speaking of China instead of ME for a change- Surley you are going to acknowledge their DREADFUL treatment of Animals
Yet you think its ok to send your animals and Australias Animals there also!

Arrived safely you said- Yes Yabby I have over forty vidoes of Animals Alive SCREAMING in pain and fear with their eyes rolling back in their heads while to MLA supported bastards lift it off the boat by crane.

They pearse the hook straight through the animals AFTER they rip its eyes out ALIVE with their bare hands!

MLA and Animal Welfare Cut The Crap Yabby F THE MLA and WE the public REFUSE to have OUR FUNDS going into it ANY MORE!
AUSTRALIAN PUBLIC SAY NO TO THEIR FUNDS GING TO MLA TO PROP UP THE BARBARIC LIVE ANIMAL TRADE

The trouble with those who use this forum to argue against live animal exports is that they seem invariably to be childish, nuts or both.

Sorry, I like animals but idiotic arguments like those presented by PALEIF, dickie and TarynW only cause me to question the credibility of the most prolific animal rights advocates in this forum.

If you actually want to attract support for your cause, as opposed to acting out your childish squabbles, I'd suggest you tone it down a bit.