First task for conservative Australia and vital for every Australian rebuilding the defeated coalition party's.
Like it or not the race is over, no rabbit out of a hat no last minute fall from public grace by Rudd it is over.
Why?
Australia has many answers we will talk about them for many months here but the rebuilding is more important.
Again why? look at NSW my party's landslide victory, or was it a repeated one sided victory? has not done the state much good, one sided rule never does.
Yes I will revel in the victory, roll in it smell it and talk of it for months .
I carried the pain of Lathams train wreck for 3 years!
Knowing it was not the voters fault no conservatives fault but my party's fault! we let Creans spite over rule common sense.
But in one term we overturned it all.
Put the past behind us and opened up a future that sees us understand how to win , and how to stay in office.
Sunday morning in the lodge will be bad for some and just great for others.
In my view good leadership from conservatives will make the future even better.
Mr Howard at times you ruled very well, not this term on Sunday just think in one term from total victory to total defeat, thanks for the memories Sunday brings

Dear Belly,

I wish you well and I'll keep my fingers crossed. However, it's going to be a close one and its still to early to call.

Regards Foxy ,no it will not be close as much as an ALP victory it will be a Howard defeat, earned by old John in full.
The roots of the defeat go back some way, who among ALP voters can not understand the leadership of Crean helped Howard as much as Latham?
How can John not understand to defeat such leadership is no great victory?
Australia was never in love with the old bloke ,we just trusted him more than his opponents!
This last term, its insulting war on his new conservatives , its failure to understand workchoices crafted to kill unions had as its first victims already low income workers who could never afford to be in unions.
Celebrate the victory it is ours, but remember do not fall into the Howard trap.
We must rule for every Australian, and never use power to inflict pain such as workchoices or hide such as AWB.
It is in the best interests of Australia that conservatives after the pain find new fresh leadership not Costello and rebuild.
Rudd will be no easy task to unseat, he will be a promise keeper but Strong opposition is a tool of good government.

actually, howard may just feel a great relief.

Sorry Belly

The Liberal party are eco vandals and intent on tipping us into the sea. But then so are the state Labor parties all of whom have descended into unconscionable moral pygmies.

I have decided, after careful deliberation, not to vote with my pocket this Saturday.

In the name of humanity and the survival of homo sapiens on this planet I exhort the following:

"Go the Greens.......go...go....go!

Good on ya dickie add your vote to the 13% yes the best greens vote ever is expected.
Not mine no never mine, if I vote other than ALP it will be in a state election and in a way my vote counts.
Yes however, NSW Labor pains me! like so many I worked hard for them, and they let me down!
We are supposed to not even whisper that! not until after the the big one!
But voters know the difference, some one in ALP headquarters has whats his name, our leader in this state hidden, thanks bloke.
If he does not spring to life and sack 2 maybe three ministers by next month he has failed to lead.

Again record it flog me with it if untrue Rudd is going to be a great leader an all time great ALP leader, he will impress the hardest heart and bring back ALP refugees from left and right.
Sunday in the lodge? I will save a beer for the old fella, fair dinkum I would drink it with him, unsure however I could not remind him about workchoices and my great union.

I doubt very much that Sunday morning at the Howards' will be characterised by champagne, smoked salmon croissants and celebratory ministrations by Janette. Actually, I hope the little bastard loses his seat as well as government.

Belly - you'll be pleased to know that I'll be helping the local ALP candidate out on Saturday morning :) (Mainly because he's a mate, but also because the ALP's come to their senses regarding preferencing the Greens).

Belly at least everyone knows who to blame for incompetence.

the labor states.

wont be any difference.

i take it you have cashed in all your investments and put your money under the bed.

If you havnt you had better hurry.

Oh and by the way Charlton is not a safe labor seathow do you want that knife in the back from labor
dont worry cobet nose is so high that he doesnt even see the people here only money.
Well he must get paid well as being a board director of a bank.

Know the people yeah right should be good fight.

Stuart Ulrich
Independent for Charlton

Glad you dropped in Stu, see you got position one on the ticket, what do they call that spot again?
Of some interest to you a candidate after all it was the voters who put the ALP in every government.
As they will on Saturday, the day you fail to get your deposit back.
NSW however has let me down, just maybe our leader whats his name once he is let out of the cellar can earn his stripes sack 2 maybe 3 ministers.
J C Morgan I will be ringing the booth numbers in for your mob after mine as a favor for a mate, so enjoy the day time has me tied up but would not miss Saturday night for quids, hope Bernie Banford lasts that long.

Belly you might be suprised but i didnt know they called the no 1 position the donkey vote position.

Also as i have always said i am here to stand up for the people and vote for the people and not just raise my leg roll over and be shafted.

Hope all you labor supporters have enough vaso.

and the markets will go and people will lose their money but not even rudd is talking about that.

I have put my money where my mouth is even though it would not even be a tenth of what combet already gets a year

No not at all surprised Stu! however your barbed insults toward me and my party get close to rudeness.
Use wit mate! it is so easy to use an Aussie put down and have me laugh with you.
Been a very big week, my booth is set up ,it is raining, say do you think Kevin has broken the drought?
Sunday Stu in the Lodge will be not unlike Sunday in the seat of Charlton, for you!
And understanding of the science that is politics says nearer last than first is your fate in that seat, nothing unkind, just understanding.
Today however is not about insults and miss understanding of the subject, it is about a change of direction for Australia.

Dear Belly,

Well, you were right! What a night it's been... Truly amazing.
Australia has voted. The people have decided . The choice was clear -
A choice for the future. Now the work begins, and I have no doubt that we are in good hands. We are blessed...

Well done Belly

No doubt you are presently celebrating the Labor victory. Perhaps a sore head tomorrow?

These are exciting times. I trust the Rudd government won't disappoint.

Dickie this bush bred union thug, its in my cheek mate, knows how to take the top of a beer.
And my head!
But no pain today, just joy no sympathy just an understanding it was a victory for young kids who never have been unionists and never may be.
Of the thousands ,yes that many and more, story's I will tell just one.
A young man of 19, in a thriving coastal city, one day after workchoices.
This kid was told here is your AWA sign or no job, he signed.
12, 13 AND MORE HOURS A DAY, NO OVERTIME!
he was fear filled as he told me, but also afraid his child and wife would go hungry.
I term, a far worse result than Lathams, no John I feed on your pain it is no less than the pain you placed on the already poor.
Your campaign was dreadful evil at times.
Monday at Belly? my new shirts will be ordered , just below the union name and mine it will say union thug, to remind conservatives some of us are in fact not.
Rebuild and find new direction conservatives, please leave the hate and lies in the same place as Howard's campaign, the rubbish bin.
Stu 4th spot!
Congrats nearly 2000 votes, about 1700 isn't it?
And all time surge in the donkey vote.
ALP got an increase too here and there
regards

Congradulations To Kevin Rudd

Nobody could say he didnt work for it.

John Howard has nothing to be ashamed of either- other than his lack of compassion for Gods Creatures.

The fact that he praised Mark Vaile personally made it easy to say- bye John.

Mark Vaile has pushed cruelty to Animals because hes been too stupid to push progects to value add for exports.


Time will tell if Kevin Rudd he ends up being a good leader or not.

With the Greens having more say it is hoped Kerry Obrien and Rudd finally make the changes required to reopen Abattoirs in Australia and faze out the barbaric live animal trade.



A point of interest to some and a question if anybody knows the rules?

Yesterday we were asked to attend a school where two people had gone to vote.

These people were not members of any group but wore their every day T shirt which read- STOP SENDING ANIMALS ALIVE FROM AUSTRALIA.
[ There are hundreds of these on the Gold Coast]

They are sold at flea markets around the Gold Coast.

The man in charge of the polling kicked them off the school grounds and threatend to call police.

[ Clearly a lib supporter I ]

One of the ladies was quite elderly and very upset by it especially.

Whats interesting about this is that it seems odd to stop people wearing their everyday clothes with anything written on their person.

As there was no reference to any political party I would say he has acted outside his powers.

To the best of my knowledge providing no political party is mentioned people may wear what they wish.

Going one step futher I think anybody is entiled to hand out anything at the front of the schools so long as they are six meters back from the gate.

People were crowding the gate- many libs but this bloke said nothing.

I dont think anybody has the right to tell somebody what to wear.

Its an interesting one which we intend to take up with the electrol commission.

The no slogans on your shirt debate blew up at my polling Booth, it adds weight to my view public servants are not always productive.
Most are school teachers or such.
My shirt said my unions name and on the front I AM FIGHTING FOR YOUR RIGHTS AT WORK.
On the back the your rights at work slogan.
It was made for the NSW election earlier this year, worn all day and voted in after I asked the polling official.
Yesterday it was banned, yet 2 girls in Kevin 07 shirts voted?
My booth in early rain had been set up too close to the booth, we had to move it I agreed.
Signs telling of a home sale went up on the polling booth, no problem?
My shirt in my view was not illegal.
I am a large bloke and got to the end of a long line took my shirt of and put it back on inside out then voted.
worth it.
every bit of it, Sunday at Bellys is great fun today.

HI TO ALL THE FORGOTTEN AUSTRALIANS i can only hope now that mr rudd is the leader of this country that he will acknowledge the forgotten australians and give justice to the victims of the abuses that we occurred as children in the australian states run institutions , mr rudd i hope you will open the folder of the forgotten australians in the new home you have as you say this is a new future well the forgotten australians are also the future as we have our own children of want the forgotten australians to be remembered and for the courts to give justice to the victims and sir you are now in power and can only hope that you will commend to the forgotten australians as you are to the indigenous people and the australian public ,the lodge is the new opening so open the door for the forgotten australians and those who are no longer with us we will no longer be forgotten australians , we are not going away kind regards micheal

huffnpuff

Hi to you. CLAN has already communicated with Kevin Rudd about the Forgotten Australians and will follow up as soon as possible.

The other miserable lot gave us nothing. We can't do worse than that, can we?

Well its kind of all panning out for the best. The Libs
had nearly 12 years and were getting a bit stale. Voting
Howard out was about the only way to give him the message
that it was time to go and prune the roses :)

Kevin 07 is the smartest that Labour have in their ranks
and good news compared to previous lame duck leaders like
Crean, Beazley etc, so the public got it right. I seldom
care which party they are in, as long as they have a few
brains. Keating had them, but the public prefers arse
crawlers to smarts.

Costello realises that he doesent want the leadership
as badly as Australia needs a good treasurer, so he's
not even applying for the job and will eventually head
for private enterprise, where they are better at recognising
talent then you lot are and will pay him 3-4 Million$ a year.
I don't blame him, I would not put up with you lot either :)

Maxine is good news, we need more smart politicians like her
and she is clearly keen.

In terms of changes, I can't see any huge ones happening, as the
principle policies of the two parties are quite similar.

So it all ends happily, a win-win all round!

Bit sorry Barnaby joice went of so badly and a bit too loosely have more hope for him than that.
Our ex foreign minister showed both pain and spite but no understanding he will join Costello in another job soon.
I am convinced Rudd will both bring back new conservatives and green refugees but he will not be other than near New Labor.
Voters demand products like that in good times.
Good but not surprising news Costello put the party first who tapped him on the should?
member for Wentworth most likely it could have been another prominent NSW high profile I see no leader from else ware.
What a sad day for John Howard! no grief from me ,but mate! it is spelled 2 ways Workchoices, is first.
Overconfidence the other, you just thought you could think for your Aussie battlers ,if only you had looked around you would find they went months after you won last time.
Sit quietly John and know .
Your defeat is far far worse than Mark Lathams
Sorry got to hum it again by by by by by Johny good by, ever had a tune you just can not get out of your head?
No I am not a bad winner! you deserve every inch of your loss bloke.

Open Letter To Prime Minister Rudd

http://www.farmonline.com.au/news_daily.asp?ag_id=47040

http://www.farmonline.com.au/news_daily.asp?ag_id=47015

Dear Prime Mininster Rudd

Around four weeks ago it was announced that the Cole Enquiry staff could not continue their investigations into the AWB Enquiry - Due to Lack of funding.?

Mr Howards office when contacted by phone declaired they didnt know who was resonsible for funding it.

We recieved the same reply from Mr Downers office although they did point the finger at -Mr Rudocks office. His staff were in meetings each time we contacted them= for days.

We call upon you Mr Rudd to do The Nationals and Howard wouldnt.

what the Howard Government and The Nationals feared

To ensure your Government allow the AWB staff to contiune with their enquiries which may lead to charges?

Mr Vaile it would seem is very happy for this matter to be closed.



This linkis not working however you may click onto it later-
AWB ENQUIRY COWS WITH GUNS
www.livexports.com/cowgun.html

Belly
It does seem odd if you were working out the front your shirt was picked on.

Everybody was wearing for for bla bla.

Maybe its just the public who are restricted.
That seems terribly wrong.
Yabby
Yep everythings good.
Nats down to ten.

The Nationals who have deceived our farmers and flooded the country with cheap imports.

Beauty.

Pale, the Nationals have not deceived our farmers at all. The
real problem is your understanding of modern economics.

Some get it, some don't. If you don't get it, thats your
problem. I along with tens of thousands of other farmers,
benefit from the global economy. Cheaper Roundup, cheaper
chemicals and fertilisers, cheaper spare parts, cheaper
machinery, cheaper input costs in general, from A to Z.

Cheaper power tools, cheaper clothes, cheaper cars, cheaper
tvs, cheaper computers, etc. etc. As a consumer I benefit too.

The global economy has also opened up some overseas markets,
like lamb into the US. Sadly, your kind of protectionism still
stops us selling to the EU.

Vaile too understands all this, but I think its wayyy over your
head :)

"Vaile too understands all this, but I think its wayyy over your
head :)"

Not at all Yabby.

Some of us act on principle, others plunder for profit.

And we all know what motivates you.

Yabby
Way over my head ah. Umm.

My brother in law who is a lawyer amoung other things grew up with him.

They went to school together and much to my shame are still mates.

Two months ago Mark provided references for him in a matter he was taking to the court against the QLD State Government.

I think I have had a better oportunity to follow Mark than most.


You call him a hero only because you have no idea of how you have been brain washed Yabby.

Its not rocket science to be able to run a country without shipping off live animals.

Its not rocket science to work out why other countries take these poor creatures alive.

To provide a future and plenty of employment for their countries Yabby.

Mark Vailes office personally ran which programes would and wouldnt be supported through Austrade and Regional projects.

Nothing- and I do mean NOTHING that might give some healthy compertition to the cruel live exporters got off the table.

Farmers Federation and Austrade , MLA are the same. Its like a disease but more cruel than cancer.

Mr Mark Vaile and Alexanda Downer along with some others still have some questions to answer in the wake of the AWB Enquiry.

In 2003 they were warned that funds were going to suspicious accounts.

The AWB are still large live exporters.

Most of the grubs are still operating.

As a matter of fact I would be surprised to see Mark enter into some agreement with AWB
Hes so good at selling ship loads of live Animals direct to Kwait and other destinations to face unbelibable cruelty.

Thats of course if they are not jailed first.

Bring on The final stage of the AWB Enquiry please Prime Minister.
Patience!

PALEIF: " I dont think anybody has the right to tell somebody what to wear."

I agree completely. But wasn't it you prattling on not so long ago about women wearing hijabs?

Pale, you still don't get it lol, but I don't think that you
ever will, so I am not holding my breath.

Governments, Austrade, MLA etc, don't build meatworks, private
enterprise does. We are a market economy. Those organisations
facilitate some things, that is all.

I encouraged the WA Govt to appoint exactly that, ie a facilitator
to help private enterprise get through Govt red tape. They won't,
ok. Thats got nothing to do with the Feds, Austrade, MLA or anyone
else.

As to AWB, thats all over now. Yup Landmark act as agents for
some live shippers, that is not illegal. So what? Its legitimate
business, but only a very tiny part of the Landmark business,
which AWB bought from Wesfarmers, in case they lost their monopoly.
As its turned out, it was a wise decision.

The whole AWB story was overblown anyhow. 2000 companies dealt
with Iraq, one was thoroughly investigated. The farmers lost
millions because of that whole investigation. Its a real shame
but thats politics. The Americans have played dirty selling
wheat, with all their subsidies, for eons. This time AWB
played the game and was nailed. What about all those American
companies that supplied Iraq? What about the hundreds of millions
that Iraq still owes us farmers? They never did pay their debt,
so once again, farmers were the losers

Yabby
AWB is not over. Its only just started. As they all head for the hills because they no longer have the power to cover everything up we will not allow anybody that can be charged to walk free.

Philip Rudock Vaile Howard and Downer all said they had no idea who was supposed to fund the enquiry.

Thats easy. We the people.

As we funded the begining we shall the end.

Do not post to me as if I was a fool.

Who do you think blew the whistle on Wesfarmers anyway?

Who contacted Downer and Vaile in 2003 and warned live export money was going a stray- through Wesfarmers and then over to AWB
It was biz as usual.

Whats changed you ask.
Plenty.
The public are now better informed.
No Mr Vaile its certainly far from over.

Thats a promise.

The big losers in the AWB enquiry have been the farmers, the
big winners have been rich lawyers. Lets hope that Mr Rudd
does not pee anymore taxpayer dollars up against walls, to
make lawyers even richer.

Yabby
Run Rabitts Run- But Justice will be done.
You dont mind our tax dollars going into MLA Yabby.
You dont mind the public purse paying all sorts of subs and buddy system deals to FF or Austrade Yabby.
You dont even mind our public funds going off shore to build more holding yards to take even more of these poor alive creatures from Australia.
You dont mind OUR jobs being shipped off shore with OUR funds supporting it.

Your just scared because yu know once the final leg of this story is disclosed it will be the begining of the end.
AWB is a win win for the ALP.
They over looked it last time - but hey look what they have had offered to them on a plate.
We are taliking joal terms here Yabby- Isnt it exciting.

They would be mad to let Vaile and Downer along with Ruddock close it down.
The farmers can use their votes and voices best by insisting both federal and state Governments cut red tape and make some offers toward farmer involved abattoirs.
Farmers have a duty of care towards the animals they breed and jobs fr Australias
Especially the next generation regional kids.
They have made little attempt themselves to do something about this cruelty.
All eyes on farmers lack of action and protests this year.

"Your just scared because yu know once the final leg of this story is disclosed it will be the begining of the end."

Beginning of the end of what? More rich lawyers getting even richer,
is about all I can see. Personally I'd rather see that money put
into animal welfare, as MLA and farmers do.

Jobs are not the issue in this debate, certainly not in West Australia.
It is pointless creating jobs that nobody wants. If
you want to create jobs, do so where there are unemployed, like
in Melbourne, where cars are made. Yet most Aussies drive imports.

As to what is cruel, farmers simply don't take the housewifely
perceptions that you do. They are generally a bit tougher then
that. You claim that putting any sheep on a boat is cruel, I don't.
It depends on the boat, conditions etc.

You claim that slitting an animals throat is cruel, I say that
depends. Pain and perceptions of pain can be quite different.
We still have lots to learn.

I see that with one of my very own dogs right now. She lost nearly
all the skin on her right thigh, from the toxin of a spider bite.
The result looked horriffic, 6 by 8 inches of red meat! Yet the
vet put her on no anesthetics, just anti inflammatories and anti biotics.
She's been slowly healing for 6 weeks in my kitchen.
Look at it and you would scream ouch, yet she is clearly not in any
pain. Pain and perceptions of pain are different, I've learnt that.

"Pain and perceptions of pain are different, I've learnt that."

Of course, Yabby. That's probably why you didn't inform us that 600 animals died on-board, on one ship alone, this financial year.

Your inability to emerge from the realms of sadism, would convince you that these 600 animals had a ball in the throes of death.

And no doubt you would have gained a kick from learning that 107,600 animals were incinerated on the ships of shame. believing they became really excited about the prospect of being burnt alive on the high seas.

Hello Mr Rudd......may we send these details to the lodge for your perusal?

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C02E4DF143BF934A3575AC0A960958260

OMG, trust Dickie to bring up that old chestnut! Dickie I remind
you that the Titanic and many other ships sank, killing thousands
of people, but did we give up shipping or improve ships? What
about thousands dying in plane crashes, millions in car crashes?
Yet we still drive cars, fly in planes, just try to improve them and make
them safer. Do you have any common sense at all? :)

Yes, some livestock die. They die in paddocks, in yards, feedlots,
in transport. Wild animals die too, thats life, it will happen
to you too. Read "Stock Diseases" by Brightling to understand all
the diseases that can affect livestock and no, they are not yet
all on a Medicare plan.

Perhaps you should go farming for a bit, to learn to understand and
accept nature. But then given that you think that David Attenborough
is extreme, perhaps the real problem is your world perception,
not the world and how it is.

When it comes to livestock, its a question of what is acceptable.
If we look at the cattle trade, something like 99.7% of cattle arrived
safely last year. Those are pretty good figures. With sheep its
over 99%. Again, extremely good figures. They are getting better
too.

Yup, some sheep just refuse to eat, usually merinos, who are not
really bright at the best of times. But then some people refuse
to eat too, they die.

Given that you are totally against people farming livestock in
the first place, no matter what I say, nothing will convince you.
Thats fine, its not my fault that you live by a flawed philosophy :)

"When it comes to livestock, its a question of what is acceptable.
If we look at the cattle trade, something like 99.7% of cattle arrived
safely last year. Those are pretty good figures. With sheep its
over 99%. Again, extremely good figures. They are getting better
too." (Yabby)

Oooh....that does sound good Yabby. Your Father of Sadism (Marquis) would be delighted.

Now lets see.......one percent of 4,140,069 live sheep exports for 2006/07 equals 41,400 dead sheep.

And 0.3 percent of 675,732 live cattle exports for 2006/07 equals 2,027 dead cattle.

Now 41,400 plus 2,027 equals 43,427 dead animals.

So in one year alone, 43,427 defenceless animals endured a gruesome but avoidable death on the ships of shame.

43,427 DEATHS!

Congratulations on your manipulative spin of the facts, Yabby.

Mr Rudd....have you arrived at the Lodge......are you listening?

Ah, there is your problem Dickie, your dealing with death.
Perhaps you are just terrified of it, like many. But of course
its not avoidable, as you would like to imagine.

In NZ, when they have a cold snap at lambing, millions of
young lambs die from exposure to the weather. That makes
deaths on any ship look totally insignificant. In Australia,
they reckong around 5% of the sheep flock die in paddocks, from
various causes from snake bite, dog attacks, diseases, fly strike,
you name it. Thats 5 million deaths. In Australia, we shear sheep
and cold snaps can kill them by their thousands and do in most
years.

In the wild, every day, tens of thousands of animals die of
hunger, disease, thirst, eaten by other animals, you name it, it
happens.

Is it avoidable? If you don't risk living then you don't risk
dying, thats the only way. People like you often think that
many animals would be better having no life, then having had
a life. Most sheep in fact lead most of their lives free range,
quite happily. They are fed in droughts, water is provided, worms
are treated, etc. etc. They have far more contented lives then
many humans and then many wild animals.

But death will happen one way another, to them, as it will to
you. Get used to it, when you fall off the proverbial perch,
the undertaker and flower sellers will be rubbing their hands
in self interest. Thats the reality. Closing your eyes and
wishing it would be different, is not going to change it.

Yabby
Why dont you just be honest and say like many other farmers you dont give a SH what happens to these animals as long as you continue to get an extra twenty bucks a head.

Go on you can say it. We know thats a fact anyway. It might even give you some more credability.

You keep saying nobody wants to work in WA.
To bad Yabby because there are plenty on welfare that are going to have to get a job.
Now they can choose bewtween IT jobs plumbers electrians bonners slaughtermen yard people stock handlers plastics manufacturing carboard as well packers drivers adminstration persons and dozens more.

You have no concern for the next generation if not cruelty to animals.
Cant you see the way the world is going?
Are you so blind you dont know china is in terrible finiacial trouble.
We buy heaps of stuff from China Yabby as well as other countries.
As they say- Clever race the Chinease.
They operate the same way as the big crime bosses peddling their drugs.

Get um hooked and dependant first then put the prices up.
Millions Of Ozzies starving to death will be the picture down the track!
Speaking of China instead of ME for a change- Surley you are going to acknowledge their DREADFUL treatment of Animals
Yet you think its ok to send your animals and Australias Animals there also!

Arrived safely you said- Yes Yabby I have over forty vidoes of Animals Alive SCREAMING in pain and fear with their eyes rolling back in their heads while to MLA supported bastards lift it off the boat by crane.

They pearse the hook straight through the animals AFTER they rip its eyes out ALIVE with their bare hands!

MLA and Animal Welfare Cut The Crap Yabby F THE MLA and WE the public REFUSE to have OUR FUNDS going into it ANY MORE!
AUSTRALIAN PUBLIC SAY NO TO THEIR FUNDS GING TO MLA TO PROP UP THE BARBARIC LIVE ANIMAL TRADE

The trouble with those who use this forum to argue against live animal exports is that they seem invariably to be childish, nuts or both.

Sorry, I like animals but idiotic arguments like those presented by PALEIF, dickie and TarynW only cause me to question the credibility of the most prolific animal rights advocates in this forum.

If you actually want to attract support for your cause, as opposed to acting out your childish squabbles, I'd suggest you tone it down a bit.

"Sorry, I like animals but idiotic arguments like those presented by PALEIF, dickie and TarynW only cause me to question the credibility of the most prolific animal rights advocates in this forum."

CJ Morgan. Which part of the argument do you regard as "idiotic?"

And why do you continue to preface your objections with:

"I like animals but....?"

Because you don't and it is your credibility which is questionable...not ours. We speak the facts with passion. I make no apology.

Let's face it C J. You secretly endorse the continuing torture of animals.

Do you also object to the "idiotic" outbursts from those who care for whales?

In a previous thread you claim to be a member of the Greens and argued the following:

"so would you mind indicating which (Green) policies are "idiotic?"

The oppressive, Robert Mugabe also uses a similar hypocritical argument to quell "idiotic" protests from his detractors while his Black Boots attach electrodes to their victims' genitals.

Perhaps, you could divert your "Green" lobbying skills to counselling rock ape, Peter McGauran, whose "idiotic," extremist philosophies, promoting animal torture, placed this hypocrite in the shadows too...just where you and he belong.

Idiotic arguments? How about these:

dickie: "Oooh....that does sound good Yabby. Your Father of Sadism (Marquis) would be delighted"

TarynW: "As they say- Clever race the Chinease.
They operate the same way as the big crime bosses peddling their drugs.

Get um hooked and dependant first then put the prices up.
Millions Of Ozzies starving to death will be the picture down the track!"

There's stacks more, though I concede that PALEIF's comments on this thread are perhaps better described as unnecessarily aggressive than idiotic. I merely suggested you guys tone it down a bit if you want people to tale your cause seriously. You know, the thing about attracting more flies with honey etc.

As it is, the anti-live exports people here seem to attack personally anybody who disagrees with them even slightly - which is not a good look I'm afraid. It's all been said before, so I don't expect they'll listen this time either.

So much for the animals, eh?

"As it is, the anti-live exports people here seem to attack personally anybody who disagrees with them even slightly - which is not a good look I'm afraid.

Yet more propaganda from CJ Morgan.

1. There is only one poster (not "anybody") on OLO who disagrees with those who seek justice for defenceless animals. That is the sadist, Yabby - the exporter of live sheep.

I suggest you read Yabby's smarmy "idiotic" insults to his opponents and his deceitful claims before you attack those who have learnt to defend themselves from his onslaughts.

2. "It's all been said before, so I don't expect they'll listen this time either."

How "idiotic" is that? Why are YOU on this thread? Hello, are we keeping you up CJ?

The people ARE listening.

And the silent majority continue to read of the heinously cruel practices in this industry.

The media are printing reports almost weekly.

There are protests all around the world over Australia's live animal export industry.

Take a hint, CJ Morgan. You're enough to turn anyone off the Greens. I would recommend they become more selective in their membership and consider throwing you out - or perhaps you're just a troll?

Why don't you register for the Howard Reich? They sure could do with some help from people like yourself who just happen to be the minority in this country.

And all gratitude to Mr Rudd who has not displayed any of the characteristics of avarice and abuse which was rampant in his predecessor and his team of "black boots."

Pale, I am being honest in claiming that the whole debate is far more complex
then your black and white little world of hysteria. One has to examine arguments
and their implications from all sides, not just from one very limited, extremist
side. That is exactly what I do.

Dickie thinks we should not be farming at all. You seem to think we can force
and compel people into jobs for which they have absolutaly no aptitude or willingness,
or suitable state of mind. You can’t put people addicted to drugs
or alcohol on a meat chain, Worksafe would shut you down really quick. Besides,
we are not in Russia either, people have choices in our society, that’s the reality.

Every single meatworks in WA is short of staff and with all the help of Govt
agencies and others, they still can’t find workers. You have yet to suggest a
magic formula to change that reality and Soviet style rules won’t do it for you.

Next is the issue of drought. A valid case can be made that the live trade played
a vital role in reducing animal suffering during droughts. When there is no food
for livestock, local works are full and can’t handle any more and farmers have
no money to buy fodder, animals suffer. That’s the reality. By moving millions
of livestock to other places of slaughter and providing funds to farmers to buy
fodder for their remaining stock, much potential suffering would have been
averted.

“Millions Of Ozzies starving to death will be the picture down the track!”

Claims like the one above, make my case for me. We want rational debate,
not hysterical claims from you.

As for your videos, anyone with an agenda can take a video camera, sneak
around and try to promote their agenda.. That does not mean
that they project a valid, overall objective view of an industry. We need an
honest and objective assessment of animal handling and slaughter methods
in the ME and how they could be improved and I suggest that its not made
by vegetarians.

"Dickie thinks we should not be farming at all."

A ludicrously ridiculous statement and a bald-faced lie.

"We need an honest and objective assessment of animal handling and slaughter methods in the ME and how they could be improved and I suggest that its not made by vegetarians."

Here's Scott Hansen's "honest and objective assessment" on the cruelty to animals in the Middle East: This is what he told the ABC:

'Scott Hansen from Meat and Livestock Australia says the film footage contains some of the worst cases of animal cruelty he's ever seen.'

So an "honest assessment" has already been performed by your leader, Yabby which again reveals that you are a bald-faced liar!

However, I am confident that Mr Rudd's team will be perfectly capable of sifting through your vacuous disinformation and realise they are dealing with a false witness who relishes defiling defenceless animals and who will continue to perjure himself in his lust for profit.

"A ludicrously ridiculous statement and a bald-faced lie."

Dickie, perhaps you should trawl through your own past
posts, where you constantly mention the evils of farming
livestock "for a profit". Once again you contradict yourself.

Scott Hansen made a valid comment about extremely limited
footage from the ME. Thats a long way from claiming that
these practises are considered normal in the ME.

The animal libber group promoting these videos, AFAIK is
also a promoter of vegeratarianism, encouraging people
to give up meat eating. Not exactly main stream stuff.

Their agenda about the live trade is clear, so where
is the objective information?

Any political party which wants to remain credible, will
have to examine ALL the data, not just give way to
extremist hysteria.

Its interesting that when people like CJ mention some
of these extemist claims, people like you go for
the proverbial jugular. Thats hardly rational debate,
more like passion dominating any ability to reason.

Yabby
Why refer to me as pale? I am posting my real name which is Taryn. Note I said my real name unlike you.

I dont mind people knowing I am a member of pale by the way.
Its just that your so unfair to pale by making them account as a group for everything I personally say.

Tell you what Yabby- I am a member of many groups including RSPCA.
If Dickie were running a group I would be honoured to join it.
However she has make it clear shes a one man band with a few million supporting her.

I know Wendy still converses with Bridgett Bardo~s office and she support the Halal Slaughter in Australia and pales co joint farm ventures.
It really is the only answer for Australia. I know for a FACT they asked Wendy to pass on their thanks and congradulations to Dickie.
[ My point people world wide are watching this issue]

So Yabby the real people DO listen to Dickie-[ Would you like a hanky]

I am not so sure however Dickie that Kevin Rudd will do the right thing without being put on the mat.

I think hes playing politics by getting Kerry Obrien to go on Land Line then giving him the boot.

One thing I do know and that is the Greens are dedicated to stopping this evil trade and replacing it with chilled meat only.

I personally beleive Andrew Bartlett although a animal lover himself only used the votes he gained through it to stay in a job.

I am GLAD the Greens are taking over.

The best part about the greens is they will stop that clicky little political game that went on for years between peak organisations and Bartlett.
The greens are NOT in it just for votes for mates and nor is pale either I can assure you

The greens are "much more sincere" so the strong green vote is a win for animals.
As for CJ Morgan who claims to be a greens person. Clearly he isnt because hes against his own parties policy.

Pale, I can call you Gertrude if you wish :) Names don't really
matter to me, facts do. But then I'm not a girl, so not into
female bitchfests and the constant personality arguments that
you girls seem to thrive on.

Given that your style of writing and spelling mistakes stay
much the same, IMHO the same person is typing away there.
But its basically irrelevant.

I don't care if its the greens, the blues or the browns,
who want to close the live sheep trade. At the end of the day
what matters are the facts, not the opinions and agendas of
a bunch of extremists.

At the political level, once you get past the various pressure
groups, reason, facts and sanity have to prevail, not alot
of hysteria. Anything else and once the traditional media
get hold of the facts, they will rip any political party to
shreds. The parties are well aware of that fact.

Nobody at all has so far presented workable, achievable options
to the way things are right now. Until they do, farmers will
defend themselves, their rights, their livelyhoods and their families.

"Given that your style of writing and spelling mistakes stay
much the same, IMHO the same person is typing away there.
But its basically irrelevant."

So if it's irrelevant Yabby, why allude to someone else's spelling mistakes? Such arrogance!

You know, Yabby, "People in glass houses............."

"their livelyhoods and their families."

livelyhoods??

"not alot of hysteria."

alot??

Alot is a town and a nagar panchayat in Ratlam district in the state of Madhya Pradesh, India.

And our apologies to Belly for hijacking his thread.

Unfortunately, motor-mouth Yabby AKA cruel exporter of live sheep is obsessive about having the last say.

It's his way of concealing the evidence, you see!

Dickie, now to your failures in life :)

Did I say anywhere that I don't make typos or spelling
errors? Nope. Just that the writer is consistant
in her mistakes, so clearly its the same person
writing most of the time.

Yes its irrelevant, I'd rather have facts. But you
are so busy trying to attack people, you forget the
facts. Hehe, you girls just can't help yourselves :)

"Nope. Just that the writer is consistant
in her mistakes"

Errrr.......consistant??

No sorry needed dickie I am watching the dust up!
I have just about ran out of smart comments about that old bloke whats his name and the lodge in any case.
I am however a bush born realist if we could export sheep meat not live sheep and make it pay the same ok by me.
But we can not.
Having a few bruises on my rib cadge for being a ruddy unionist means it hurts when I laugh but re reading posts about live animal exports of late and can't stop laughing.
See I saw a film , real live film on the ABC of cruel deaths in middle east slaughter houses.
Looked truly dreadful to me, started to really read what other said about the whole subject.
Laughing? I the evil unionist was reminded a union has often been the tool used to flog me by a poster called pale!

Ah...there you are Belly.

I am sure that you, a fair-minded man would concede that all Australians are now part of the cruel connection to this nation's unconscionable descent into abject depravity.

You see these "empire building" dehumanised live animal exporters have a privileged position. They are permitted and encouraged to violate all animal welfare Acts for the sake of their vulgar profits.

Do you know of any other industry which has gained more favours from our recently deposed, unethical government, than this whingeing, consortium of rock apes?

Now Belly....a favour? When you're at the Lodge, speaking with Mr Rudd, please put in a kind word for the animals.

And do remind him of the adage:

"A nation and its morality is judged by the way it treats its animals."

dickie

You said: "A nation and its morality is judged by the way it treats its animals."
Does that include it children (homo sapiens)?

Of course Frankgol

And you would understand that any government who condones the ill-treatment of its animals, also condones the ill-treatment of its children.

*this whingeing, consortium of rock apes*

Statements such as the above, of course show what
farmers are up against. The extremist end of the
veggie brigade, bathe in their own ignorant arrogance.

The live trade is a complex issue. Tens of thousands of
peoples lives are at stake. Most have children too.
Dickie and her ilk are clearly not interested in examining
these issues, arrogant slogans will do.

Much like Peta and their mulesing debate, ignorance is bliss!
Animals could easily land up suffering far more then ever before,
if these people get their way.

But they are not interested in debate, finding alternate solutions,
examining all the arguments etc.

Just bathe in ignorant arrogance! Its a black and white world that
that they believe in. Forget rational discussion, emotive slogans will do

Ok Guys
I will let you in on a little secret. Your great problem with spelling Yabby is a net work problem. Put in its most simple form there is something wrong and our RSPCA QLD teck has yet to work it out. Some times its fine.

Most times depsite the post being checked run through on word doc it has a mind of its own when its posted on the forum- Or with letters for that matter.
Many times the staff also are just tired.
As far as pale is concerned belly you attacked them for going into the Rudd China thread claiming- or asking - What has Rudd and China got to do with Live Exports?
You didnt like it when pale let you have it both barrels.
It was in response to your aggressive response and well in the past.

I was invited to travel down to do some work which I jump at the oportunity as often as my reasonsibiltes in life allow.

I am taking over some jobs including OLO.

WHY- Because pale feels Dickie has misunderstood their posts regarding Animal Welfare Organisations.

Dickie I can assure you without posting too much here the comments aimed at SOME peak organisations are NOT aimed at YOU.

You just going to have to trust me on this one.

For years the Yabbys of this world the Governments have got themselves OFF the hook by claiming all groups were extreme working with PETA.

It is in the Animals best interests we distance ourselves from this "UNDERSTANDING"!! That was put in place as a political you scratch my back and I will scrath yours ARRANGMENT.

I repeat we are PLEASED it going to the Greens and away from Andrew who wanted nothing to do with the alternatives put on the table by the muslim Leaders RSPCA QLD and PALE.

Please try to read between the lines Dickie.

The Australian public were fooled for too long.

Now others are being forced to act because the Government KNOW the deals off
] Thanks to people like you.

Yabby the whingening lot are people like you and your mates.
This utter crap you post about jobs is a lie.

Live Animal Exports COST jobs- Thousands of them.
No wonder you dont care about the Animals when you have not given five minutes thought to the people who have lost their jobs in country towns right across Australia for years!

The Farmers KNOW the treatment these animals receive but instead of lobbying the government to reopen the abattoirs they do nothing.

AND DONT GIVE ME THAT CRAP A MLA. WE the public PAY too!!

We are always paying for farmers and if they dont get their fingure out we WILL OBJECT TO CONTINUE TO PAY!

Thats right Yabby one word from farmers supported by farmers federation and you would be amazed how quickly the Government and the councils would reopen plants.

Oh But of course now you will rush in saying - But Taryn Taryn nobody WANTS to work in Australia.

Give us a break Yabby.

What do you think Governments are for if not to RULE the country.
There are PLENTY of people not working that should be.

Your so stupid and selfish that you dont care about the next generation.

You CANT reply on yur neighbours to feed your family.

So we cant reply on importing food from China
Havent you heard- They are going broke.

Just to show what a person you are you continue to pick at Dickie for having some moral fiber.

Mind you Dickie always managers to show you up as the uneducated goose you are.

I get many a laugh out of your silly personal attacks at her because your clearly outwitted as much as you might try.

Pitty you didnt TRY helping the Animals And furture Australian kids!

*This utter crap you post about jobs is a lie.*

Pale, err Gertrude, interesting that you think you know more about the WA
labour market, then all the Govt departments involved, or the meat processing
industry. Clearly the Gold Coast Old Ducks club is alive and well!

*we WILL OBJECT TO CONTINUE
TO PAY!*

So don’t pay your 5c, see if I care lol. Farmers levies are the major funder
of all that MLA do, including money for animal welfare.

*you would be amazed how
quickly the Government and the councils would reopen plants.*

Gertrude, in a market economy, governments don’t run meat plants, they
don’t build cars either. That’s the reality.

*What do you think Governments are for if not to RULE the country.*

Tyrants and dictators rule countries. In a democracy, politicians are elected
to serve the community. Big difference ! If they tried to rule as you suggest,
they might well be turfed out of office rather quickly. We are not in Russia here.

"The live trade is a complex issue. Tens of thousands of
peoples lives are at stake. Most have children too." (Yabby)

What a sad story - believe me, I'm resisting those tears. Those poor little kids and their struggling parents. And tens of thousands of them!

Oops here comes Yabby running down the tarmac to his new aeroplane he purchased from his recent live sheep exports, sobbing loudly and wearing an awfully red and runny honker. He's such a bleeding heart isn't he? Hey TarynW, where's that hanky, girlfriend?

Now a baffling question. You know there were 4,815,801 of Australia's animals sent off last year to a gruesome death in the Middle East. Well who can tell me what happened to all that animal waste onboard?

Was it tipped into the ocean? Australia ratified the MARPOL convention for the "Laws of the Sea" but exempted itself from one of the five pollutants - sewage!

And we all know that the nitrogen and ammonia from animal waste is choking and killing the globe's oceans and its inlets and is mainly responsible for the environmentally destructive methane.

Then there were the 43,427 pitiful animals who died during 06/07, unable to cope with their journey on the ships of shame. Were they thrown overboard too?

Worse, marine life are meat eaters. Did they feed off these drug riddled critters and toxic sewage, further contaminating our fragile oceans and its inhabitants?

And here's a bit of trivia from the other side of the world:

"A microscopic `cell from hell' (pfiesteria piscicida) has exploded recently in numbers in U.S. coastal waters (newly enriched with sewage, animal waste (one area drained has 600 million chickens) and fertilizers), killing one billion fish.

"Human interventions are creating whole new ecosystems. The pfiesteria cell also harms humans.

"Maryland has closed 3 tributaries of Chesapeake Bay because of the problem. 14 million fish died in North Carolina in '95; Virginia fish in '97 had lesion rates of 75%."

Oops Dickie, I don't think you know one hell of a lot about
livestock nutrition, or that of marine life. I'll
tell you something. Next time you have a pet goldfish,
see if it thrives by drinking water, with no nutrients :)

Let me explain it another way. When you fall off the proverbial
perch, your crying relies might scatter your ashes on the sea,
as they grab for your old hanky. Perhaps they will even borrow
one from Gertrude.

The N P K etc that used to be you, will quickly be taken up
by algae and other lifeforms. They will be eaten by small
fish, which will be eaten by larger fish. Eventually along
will come a fishing fleet and your remains could well land up
in the hold of the fishing boat. Now as it happens, it might
well be a fishing boat from the Gulf and your remains might
well land up on the plate of a large Arab in Mecca, ready for
his dinner!

Thank you for responding to my questions Yabby. Your silence is deafening which confirms my suspicions that the live animal export industry is fouling our oceans and its marine life.

"Let me explain it another way. When you fall off the proverbial
perch, your crying relies might scatter your ashes on the sea," (Yabby)

And they may not Yabby. You see crematoria incinerations contribute to the very toxic emissions of bio-accumulative dioxins. So does your industry but then ignorance is bliss which also leads to vulgar profits, does it not Yabby?

http://www.ejnet.org/crematoria/

And of course dioxins accumulate in the fatty tissue of livestock and this is where humans consume around 95% of their dioxin and furan intake.

http://www.healthychildrenproject.org/exposures/chemicals.html

Dioxins and furans have a devastating impact on human health which has caused global concern from all health authorities. The Stockholm Convention (which has sought urgent strategies), was formed purely because of dioxins.

Dioxins invade the food chain Yabby which you like to contaminate with relish particularly by dumping dead and diseased livestock and their waste into our oceans.

"Oops Dickie, I don't think you know one hell of a lot about
livestock nutrition, or that of marine life."

Is that so, Yabby?

Deary me Dickie. So if we burn you and you have silicone breast
inplants, thats going to damage the environment. Are you sure
that you arn't going to die of worry first?

Fact is that people are living longer then ever before, many
too long. We have homes full of people in their 90s, their
minds gone, virtual vegetables. I certainly hope to never
become one of those. Give me a good old timely heart attack,
before I get to that point. Life is a journey and its about
enjoying it whilst it lasts, not when you get to the destination.

As to the oceans, its a matter of fact, no nutrients = no fish.
Ask anyone in the fishing industry what happens when there is
a land drought. As those rivers arn't carrying all those nutrients
out to sea, prawn and fish catches plummet.

Pollution is a problem when we have overconcentration of nutrients,
which is another story.

I don't have the foggiest as to what happens with the waste from
live sheep ships, I have never asked them. What I do know is
that some of the oceans they sail through are miles deep and
lacking in marine life. Marine life only forms, where there are
nutrients to be recycled. The oceans are a bit like land with
no rain, its a desert. Any nutrients from live sheep ships would
only benefit marine life, so it seems to me that you have your
knickers in a twist for no good reason, yet once again.

Yes farmers aim to make a profit, as workers aim to profit from
their wages. Clearly you got paid for your labours, so should
farmers, they feed you after all.

"As to the oceans, its a matter of fact, no nutrients = no fish.
Ask anyone in the fishing industry what happens when there is
a land drought. As those rivers arn't carrying all those nutrients
out to sea, prawn and fish catches plummet." (Yabby)

Yabby, You are incredibly thick, stupid, a jerk. Your psychotic propensity to lie now has you believing your own garbage.

Nutrients create algal blooms. Algal blooms cause low oxygen. Low oxygen kills marine life and sea grasses. Get it?

http://www.ens-newswire.com/ens/oct2006/2006-10-19-03.asp

'What I do know is that some of the oceans they sail through are miles deep and lacking in marine life. Marine life only forms, where there are nutrients to be recycled." (Yabby)

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/science/20060219-9999-1n19marine.html

Pay attention Yabby. These are called "Dead Zones." Dead Zones are caused by nutrients which are caused by agricultural run-off, animal wastes etc.

And here's what the Europeans think of Australia's heinous live animal exports, its eco vandals and its traders in misery.

http://www.naturewatch.org/campaigns/australia/Background.asp

Dumpkoff!

Yabby
Like to add comment regarding pollution and the Government.

First I will cover my back and explain that I am asking Taryn to include my comments in her post.

Thats just so certain people like Robert dont try to get me banned again for breaking forum rules.

Your wrong on three counts-

The first is the Governments , which includes state Government DO get involved in the Live Exports and meat trade!

Mark Vaile and others "personally" through AWB and others Sold ship loads of sheep to Kwaite direct from the Australian Government To the Kwaite Government.

So much was the Governments infearance in the industry a staff member at MLA told me they could "not assist" us with our red meat sale "because" Live Exports to Kwaite was Mark Vailes baby.!

I received a call from the MLA staff member saying he had just had a call from Minister Vailes office and Austrade and MLA would not be assisting us because it was opposition for Live Exports!

You say the Government doesnt get invlved- BS
Howard signed a MOU two years ago himself with Brunie so dont talk crap!

Our Government using OUR tax money have paid out millions in the past to silence smaller countries after dumping thousands of animals in the water which caused tyfoid and other diseases.

People died Yabby and thousands were sick.
That was in PN So Dickies right again.

The other thing is Dickie isnt paid however pale would like to donate to this sensible decent member of the public to help with costs. If she will please contact us. All over the world Yabby there are thousands of people working to stop such totally unnessary cruelty.
Mind You If I had my way I would get a bit more serious.

Personally I am all for an eye for an eye and wouldnt mind taking live exporters on a cruise out in the deep blue ocean.

Sharks Ah- But that would be a much kinder way to go than how these low lifes treat animals.

www.livexports.com
President pale
Wendy Lewthwaite

Continued
Also it is a fact that Farmers Federation have blocked our efforts as best they could in every way they could to establish more abattoirs in Australia to open.

I know for a fact working with Muslims not only in Australia but overseas many people have contacted the different farmers federation in WA and other states asking to be put in contact with farmers with a view to fund reopening of plants.

Farmer federation along with MLA, Livecourpe, Austrade and all departments working under the Governments hand are totally and utterly controled by the Government.

Ian Ross who heads MLA in the middle East has contacted me personally from there by phone and we have exchanged emails.

The result= They wont assist to promote the co joint ventures.

Why because its in opposition to the cruel live trade.

Butchers I know have contacted MLA to do like wise and expand their operations.- Got NO help.

Its controlled Yabby.

Contolled by a weak Government with a even weaker oppostion because Mark Vaile and Downer were too stupid to keep our factories going here and export vaule added products.

After all if you had taken the cruel live trade off Vaile and Downer what ELSE could they boast about exporting! except coal?

What miserable failures and low lifes to do this to Animals to stay in a job. Evil People.

So worried about their party donations BOTH Sides of Government sold out to these low lifes.

Shame on ALP and The Howard Government for being mis lead by the Nationals.
Wendy Lewthwaite Per Taryn People Against Live Exports- Australias and the Worlds greatest shame.
Sue if you wish Mark
See you at the AWB!

Dickie, I don't think that you have the foggiest, as to how the
oceans food chains work. Phytoplankton, which involves thousands
of species including algae, are primary producers of oxygen
in the world's oceans. They also form the basis of the
aquatic food chain. They need nutrients to grow. Go inform yourself.

Like anything, too much of one thing can cause a problem. Dead
zones happen when tens-hundreds of millions of people channel
masses of nutrients into limited spots of discharge in the
ocean, like the Gulf of Mexico. Of course you are going to
get a problem! Fact is without phytoplankton in the world's
oceans, there would be no fish in the sea and no Dickies on
land either.

The fact that a few European veggie groups have copied innacurate
information from Aussie veggie sites and claim this as part
of their tin rattling campaign, is meant to impress me? Ha!

If Europeans cared a zilch, they could open up their mutton
and lamb markets to Australian products. We could send lamb there,
rather then the Middle East. But they won't, so they clearly
don't care. Do not confuse Europeans with some European
extremists.

"Like anything, too much of one thing can cause a problem. Dead
zones happen when tens-hundreds of millions of people channel
masses of nutrients into limited spots of discharge in the
ocean, like the Gulf of Mexico." (Yabby)

Yabby, take your hand off it. You desperately require an education on what your fouling is doing to OUR eco systems. Note I stressed "ours" for they do not belong to you exclusively as you and your partners in crime so arrogantly believe.

Furthermore, no thanks to the likes of you, there are now some 200 dead zones. The Gulf of Mexico, the largest, is just one of them.

"According to a 2004 United Nations Environment Program report, the number of areas hit by hypoxia worldwide has doubled since 1990. Dead zones can be found along the east coast of the United States, in the seas of Europe, as well as Australia, Brazil, Japan and many more."

Pollution-fed algae, which deprives other living marine life of oxygen, is the cause of most of the world's dead zones that cover tens of thousands of square miles of waterways. Scientists chiefly blame fertilizer and other farm run-off, sewage and fossil-fuel burning.

"The fact that a few European veggie groups have copied innacurate
information from Aussie veggie sites and claim this as part
of their tin rattling campaign, is meant to impress me? Ha!"

Veggie sites? Ha ha! Still fiddling and twiddling I see.

http://lawyersforanimals.org.au/2006/10/01/comments-on-version-2-of-the-australian-standards-for-the-export-of-livestock/

http://www.rspcatas.org.au/asp/content.asp?articleID=513

http://www.ciwf.org/campaigns/primary_campaigns/australian_live.html

Dickie, its high time you educated yourself a little about nature.

You are correct, along various coastlines, with hundreds of millions of people
discharging various chemicals and nutrients into the sea, rivers, lakes etc,
algal blooms can happen. Even treated sewage water contains dissolved
nutrients. Note how algal blooms occur along coastlines!

The only “dead zone in the Indian Ocean in comparison, was caused by
a massive tsunami, not algae. Now go out into the ocean for once and
note the huge waves, all oxygenating the water. Notice any algal blooms
out there? Ah I thought not.

I remind you that billions of fish crap into the world ocean ever day, they
also die there, rot and decompose. Everything is recycled, as its not concentrated,
its not a problem. In fact phytoplankton are vital to the worlds oceans and for
them to grow, they need nutrients. Concentrated nutrients released by humans
along the worlds coastlines, are a whole different problem. But I think that all
this is beyond you, you prefer to focus on your obsession of the live trade.

It doesn’t matter how many veggie websites you highlight, if the information
which they contain is incorrect, it’s a bit like the religious quoting their
holy books. Just because some website claims something, does not make it so.

All these arguments have been done to death, but of course the veggie mantra
is repeated over and over. Some questions:

If there are all these jobs that have been lost, why don’t these people apply
for the jobs being offered by meatworks now?

If so much money is being lost by exporting live, why don’t local processors
buy the livestock and slaughter them here?

If there are all these markets out there, why don’t processors supply them now?

If you disapprove of floating feedlots, are you going to call for the banning of
all feedlots?

If you really care about animals, why do you not assist in improving the welfare
of Middle Eastern animals too?

If cutting a sheep’s throat is what you are on about, its not illegal in Australia.

Well we have haven't we? got a long way from the threads intent.
I am not complaining I need no aid to remember that morning, floating in it still but lets look at the new direction.
Yes some cruelty exists in live sheep exports, no defense, and live animal exports can be cruel.
The first mass exports of sheep was dreadful.
But it saved Australian farmers, at a time no other easily gained market existed.
I am bush bred love poking fun at squatter types I grew up around they always have small hats if they have big money big hats if they pretend.
Name their sons Angus and Brangus daughters same names as the house cow!
I in their mind would be a red from under the bed or worse, but.
Australia needs our farmers ,no country in the world can both be as rewarding for them or destroy them.
We once rode on the sheep's back make no mistake without them we may not have survived to become a big mining hole in the ground.
Up the thread Dickie you say if you do not look after your animals you do not look after your kids?
Tell me you do not believe that please.
My lifetime dream will not come true, not enough years left, but it was to settle on my front veranda bull nosed roof watching a few well bred cattle on my small bush farm.
The problem is cruelly is all our business we must stop it and yes I will get flogged with that unions name and the lost killing and packing jobs but no market exists for all our livestock that way.
And I know a few Angus's and Branguses who still get the farm hand to pick the beast to kill and kill it so they do not have to.

Hi there, Belly

How refreshing to debate with someone who hasn't got the cunning of a subterranean rodent and the intellect of a squashed musk-rat.

Belly, I remind you mining too commenced with colonisation.

The farming community tend to forget that this nation also produces over 65 mineral commodities.

Motor vehicles are the biggest export to the United Arab Emirates.

In 2004 Queensland were the largest exporters of sugar in the world and perhaps they still are.

During the mid 1800s wool exports totalled 41 million pounds. Nothing to do with live exports though, Belly?

This country has been good to its farmers. Sheep squatters established huge sheep runs for a 10 pound a year licence and could claim as much land as they wanted.

On average, farm sizes today have increased from 2800 to 4100 hectares, taking up 60% of Australia's land mass, though some have now been paid millions of our dollars to tie their land up for conservation.

Last year saw chilled meat exports to the ME total $6 billion. Live exports totalled $1 billion. Something wrong here, Belly? Come on mate.

"The Australian Farm Institute and Rural Industries Research and Development Corporation report says demand for meat and livestock feed is likely to grow between 30 and 50 per cent by 2020 in 12 Asian countries because their middle classes have grown so dramatically.

"But the report authors say with increasing affluence people in Asia are demanding and will demand more meat and dairy in their diets.

"Australia would have to open up more agricultural land for fodder crops, investigating the possibilities of growing more sorghum and maize in northern Australia.

"The report says live animal exports are likely to fall because with increasing wealth, Asian importers, supermarkets and consumers will have more facilities for chilling frozen meat imports.

"The report also forecasts Australia's Middle East live export market will be cut because of increased competition from closer African countries."

Well I shall do my best to see to that Belly, ever reminded that Karma works in weird and wonderful ways.

Apologies Belly

I omitted to respond to your question:

"Up the thread Dickie you say if you do not look after your animals you do not look after your kids? Tell me you do not believe that please."

Well yes, Belly I do believe it and normally you are a little more perceptive.

I understood perfectly why FrankGol asked me that question.

He may correct me, however, I believe he was referring to the flagrant, sexual and physical abuse of little Aboriginal kids (and perhaps past complexities.)

And the old codger, conveniently prior to an election, stepped in to make a difference, didn't he? Pity he was years too late eh?

However, both state and federal governments are equally culpable for permitting the long-term abuse of these kids. You see, Australian governments like to intervene quickly only when there's a quid to be made.

However our politicians are quick off the mark in intervening when people start protesting about the abject cruelty of the live animal exports where they condone this criminal practice and salivate over the immoral profits.

Ah yes....which reminds me of Mr Turnbull's public remark where he stated: "We object to the inhumane whale slaughter because we Australians love the animal." Hypocrite!

Frankly I do not differentiate between other species and little kids. They are all treated the same in my house simply because neither can defend themselves. It is the defenceless who fall prey to these monsters who cowardly exploit them for their own pleasure and perverse profits.

"Frankly I do not differentiate between other species and little kids. They are all treated the same in my house simply because neither can defend themselves"

This is of course the problem. People like Dickie, who clearly
have little or no experience with farm livestock, as distinct
from children or pets, who are trying to comment about an industry
that they simply don't understand, for lack of experience.

Dickie has clearly never had a pair of rams horns up her butt :)
Dickie has clearly never been charged by a wether and nearly had
her back or leg broken. Dickie knows nothing about pigs, even the
fact that they can be bloodthirsty creatures and as any pigfarmer
knows, give them a chance and they might well take a chunk out
of your leg.

I'd say that Dickie has watched Babe and other Holywood type
movies and thinks that its all sweet tippytoeing through the
tulips, when in reality its all very different.

This is exactly why we need experienced livestock people to
comment about livestock industries, not animal libber
groupies who don't understand the difference between livestock
and pets. They are not the same, but only experience will teach
you that.

"This is exactly why we need experienced livestock people to
about livestock industries, not animal libber
groupies who don't understand the difference between livestock
and pets. They are not the same, but only experience will teach
you that."

Yabby, There is no enlightenment in the dark sinister caverns in which you reside.

You are a sadist, beyond enlightenment and this is why you skulk around animal welfare sites, making a complete goose of yourself.

We debate on animal welfare sites because we love animals. You hijack those sites because you loathe them.

So why don't you seek some DIY therapy - go and drop a few 1080 baits or shoot up a few ferals.

"No difference" you say eh? So before you skulk off, have a look at the farm animals that kind, compassionate people keep as pets, which totally refutes your claim that pets are different to livestock.

http://www.pigs4ever.com/PotBelliedPigInfo/pottytraining.htm

http://www.ehow.com/how_2092855_keep-pet-cow.html

http://www.sheep101.info/pets.html

http://www.goatworld.com/articles/goatsaspets/goatsaspets.shtml

http://www.kval.com/younews/7264196.html

Ah....but this one will be more to your liking. You and this sociopath have so much in common!

Now read carefully. It's a gas for sheep shaggers and you can even learn how to blow up frogs with firecrackers!

Yeeeeeehahhhh!

http://www.serendipity.li/wot/conover01.htm

Dickie, the USA is overloaded with people just like you.
They know little about the natural insticts of various
species. An overwhelming flow of oxytocin and motherly
love, compel them to buy "defenceless", cute little
tigers, lions, chimps, alligators, boa constrictors,
along with a host of other species.

Invariably these animals grow up, grow larger and natural instincts
kick in. Disaster strikes, the ignorant learn
the hard way about the realities of nature.

Perhaps its time for you to learn about these things. My
suggestion is that you purchase a couple of cute little pet
piggies, preferably male, along with a couple of cute little
lambies, preferably male. Given your admission of no basic
knowledge of pigs or sheep, you have lots to learn.

When these little darlings grow to their full size and start
to exhibit their natural instincts, let me know how things
are going :)

My dear Yabby. My humble apologies. I do believe I have misjudged you and perhaps you are an animal lover afterall.

Only the other day, your cleaning lady approached me and told me that when she went to clean your bedroom, she found a sheep tethered to the bed and it was wearing lipstick and a nightie!

ROFL Dickie! If after all this time, given your claimed intelligence
and caring, that is the best story that you can dream up,
best that you have another cup of tea and a good lie down to
calm the nerves :)

Dickie
What a hoot. You had sixty four people falling off their chairs laughing.
God bless your father and mother for giving us you.
For your sense of fair go to all living creatures and wonderful sense of humour along with it.
You made our Christmass party when I read your post to Yabby from my lap top!
By now Yabby is a house hold name. Antje even threatens her chooks if they are naughty and not wanting to stay out of the office-"
Go on hurry up and outside with you before I send you down to Yabby!

It would seem pale stands corrected accusing some of stuffing up investigations into the evil live animal trade and the grubs involved in it.

Seems you have hit the nail on the head with the lippy and nighty.

Funny As Dickie- and many thanks for a rare and much needed light hearted giggle from your report of Yabbs House keeper.
Ah she didnt say she was a live in house keeper did she?
Or maybe it wasnt a she?

Come on Yabbs- You can tell us- We are very understanding and kind.
Havent you noticed.

Belly I must say you have been a good sport regarding the thread. I hope you support the AMIEU.

PS Dickie- Keep an eye on Rudd. Hes flipped Kerry obrien and was up here in QLD yesterday sproutng about importing ALL our meat?
Of course hes using global warming and water supply as an exuse.

I must say I am not surprised but that would increase the cruel live trade ten fold.

Not to mention in a few years when China makes its move nobody in Australian will be able to afford food.

Quite simply even if you could leave animal welfare ut of it what idiot PM of any country would put its people in a position to rely on another country to feed its people.

Be mighty handy in a few years when they declair Australia UK and USA war criminals and enfroce sanctions.

Again thanks Dickie
funny as!!

Wendy PALE per Tary

Yep Pale

She also expressed concern about Billy Goat Gruff. Said he'd developed some sort of rheumatism in the back end!

And keep this to yourself. Apparently, "you know who's" been charged with sheep rustling. He was caught hugging someone else's sheep but claimed he was only trying to prevent it jumping the fence.

Lol Gertrude, we have actually learnt lots! Given Dickie's
love of animals and fantasies about tying them to bedposts,
reveals a little about her mind :)

Given her inability to answer my questions, saying anything
to feel better, is of course to be expected. Thats generally
how the human mind works.

I've debated with Al Queda supporters, radical Trotzkyites
and various fruitcakes. Dickie is a piece of cake in
comparison. A big heart is simply not enough today, in a
world of reason and reality

"Of course he's using global warming and water supply as an exuse.

"I must say I am not surprised but that would increase the cruel live trade ten fold."

Yes that is very true PALE. However, first things first.

The live exports out of Australia must cease. This industry is contaminating and desecrating our marine life and oceans which also belong to other nations. This is environmental vandalism at its worst, particularly given the shockingly long distances to the Middle East and the incessant amount of pollution dumped overboard.

"I've debated with Al Queda supporters, radical Trotzkyites
and various fruitcakes." (Yabby)

Now Pale, don't you find that statement curious?

I do since the housekeeper alluded to shadowy figures lurking around Yabby's sheep dips. "Bloody terrorists" she called them. "You don't think they're manufacturing some sort of chemical, do you?" she asked.

Hennyways, it was most interesting since the housekeeper inadvertently divulged Yabby's true identity.

So he'll be in the phone book under:

Mr I Pullmepudd.

Dickie

Heres one for Yabbs
Cows standing in a paddock. One cow says to the other "Are you worried about this Mad Cow diseases?". The other responds, "Nup, I'm a goat.".

Yabby. Ok Now be fair. How about giving me your honest thoughts then on Austrade MLA regional grants AWB Farmers Federations.

- If you can please explain why every single farmers federation have knocked back direct calls from ME and Maylasian people asking to be introduced to farmers at grass roots levels.
Its not up to FF to make descions for farmers. It is their job to get the information out and let farmers make their own choices.

Why did Mark Vaile write in 2003 a three page letter to us saying GATS would never be used in Abattoirs?
GATS is used in every trade if you read the very thick book Yabby.

It clearly reads- other than prosituion "GATS may be applied to all products".

Evenidentlty the Australian Government saw direct co joint partnerships with Aussie Farmers and Malyasian and ME companies as more of a threat than spreading aids and sexual diseases." Ah and of course their good moral Christian Standards.

The Government have greased their hands for years through the Industry of Live Animal Exports and THATS the only reason! they wont stop the cruelty.

You say AWB is over. No way.

Why do you think Rudd as Shadow Minister of Trade didnt jump at the oportunity to disclose AWB were live exporters and the money wasnt just wheat but live exports?

Why you think in the middle of the AWB enquiry when live exports when all over 60 minutes and the news Rudd remained silent to the public.?

I will tell you why Yabby- Because the cruel live exporters have got them by the balls - that why.


Now Mr Rudd will have to reopen the AWB enquiry publicly and allow them to lay charges - or face the public as to why he too would want to cover up the crimes of his opposition?


Wendy posted by Taryn

Gertrude, you ask what I really think. I've told you before,
if anyone wants to meet farmers, then go to your nearest saleyard
on sale day and talk to them. They are there by the dozens, hundreds,
buying and selling livestock. Is that so difficult?

As to Austrade, MLA, they each have distinct roles to play,
dealing with exporters, processors, and buyers etc. They would
get 50 calls a day from so called dreamers, ie people with ideas
who want their attention, but land up long term doing little but
wasting their time. They have probably fobbed you off as
dreamers, so will as politely as possible try not to waste alot
of time on you.

You believe in these joint partnerships, but I doubt if anyone
else does. They will tell you that you are wasting your time.

Live exports exist, because they make economic sense. Militant
unions plus a seasonal kill due to weather, shut down Northern
meatworks. Aussies want 12 months work, not seasonal work. So
the Indonesian trade is a win-win.

The whole Western meat industry has a labour crisis, not just
Australia. In the US they use Mexicans, in Canada seasonal workers,
in Europe East Europeans. When people get richer, they get fussy
where they work and don't want the so called crappy jobs.
In West Australia its particularly bad, due to the mining boom.
I've said for a long time, that they need to get serious about
automation. They had a large conference on just that last week,
so we'll see where it leads.

You are wasting your time on AWB. Landmark is just one division of
AWB and commissions on live exports are just one very small income
stream of Landmark, so its all insignficant. The rest is your
conspiracy theories, IMHO.

Gert
Thanks for taking the time to give me an honest reply.

Why is it so difficult you ask?

Ok Yabby now your not totally stupid so picture this.

People from ME and wherever walking round a sale yard looking to just by chance! meet farmers interested in joint ventures.

Right in front of Elders agents and others.

How unprofeshional and how much time do you think farmers would give them.

Anyway why should they have to do that when we have several Government bodies more than happy to promote The Live Animal Trade?

Why is it so one sided Yabby.?

Surley you are not so gulable to beleive there are no Muslim people in ME who wouldnt like to mussle in on the meat trade?

Do you really think the abattoir owners in ME who import live Animals have such respect and conrol over the meat industry others are not interested in the business?

Yeh Sure- We all notice how well everybody gets on over there.

The only reason the co joint ventures are not rushing off the shelves is the system protects the live trade.

MLA control it in ME.
A 'few' sell chilled meat with the aproval of MLA and Austrade - but nobody- and I do mean nobody will allow anybody to contact the same buyers and offer co joint ventures.

They said straight up NO Because its in compertition to live exports??

Its protected if you like from charming snake dealers such as me.



You should know that any serious investor entering Australia or any other country for that matter looks to that countries Government to know they have their support.

That support is not forth coming from the Australian Government MLA Austrade Farmers Federations.

Without that it makes the tougest business men very nervous indeed.

They are not stupid Yabby. They understand very well political connections donations votes and the old buddy stytem.

After all they invented it.
AWB are not small fry in Live Exports.
Goodnight Wendy
per Taryn

Yabby
The Government MLA Austrade System made easy in six steps.
' THE PLAN"
In the begining was the plan.
And then came the Assumptoins.
And the Assumptions were without form.
And the plan was completely without substance, and
the darkness was upon the face of the workers and they
spoke amoungst themselves, saying, Its a crock of SH and it stinks".
And the workers went unto their supervisors and said
It~ a pail of dung and none can abide its odour".
And the surpervisors went unto their managers and said to them,
It`s a cntainer of excrement and it is very strong, such that
none may abide it"
And the managers went unto their directors and said,
It is a vessel of fertiliser and none may abide its strenghth'
And The Directors spoke amungst themselves saying to
one another,' It contans that which aids plant growth
and it is very strong".
And the directors went unto the vice - presidents and
said unto them, It promotes growth and is very powerful"
And the vice presidents went unto the President and
said unto him, ' This new plan will actively promote the
growth and efficeincy of this Company and will be most
effective".
And The President looked upon the Plan and saw that it was good.
And the PLAN became POLICY.
And my friend thats how SH Happens in the Meat Industry!

Ah TarynW

That's some masterpiece. You've excelled yourself.

I like the way you alluded to the "vice" presidents.

With the emphasis of course, on the vice in this industry!

Definition of vice: An evil, degrading, or immoral practice or habit!

Spot on girlfriend!

Gertrude, you clearly have not been to many saleyards! Country
people, unlike city people, are usually quite friendly and
will talk to anyone about anything to do with the meat and
livestock industries. Who gives a crap about agents?

Of course MLA, Austrade etc, are not going to give you buyers
addresses, unless they think that both you as an organisation
and your ideas are credible. For that would imply to the
buyers, that they think you are credible. Now if you were
Roger Fletcher, they would tell you anyting that you wanted
to know. Thats their business, to sort the wheat from the
chaff.

The trade in the ME is an another whole story. You won't do
much in SA without the agreement of the Saud princes, thats
how their system works. Thats exactly what the Cormo story
was about, not disease as claimed. In SA, you play the game
by their rules, or you don't play at all. Our organisations
would be aware of that.

I think you are peeing up a tree with your joint ventures
concept, but you are free to advertise in farming papers
and see what response you get from tens of thousands of farmers.

You are free to jump to your conspiracy theory conclusions
but I think that you are wrong

Dickie-
http://www.farmonline.com.au/news_daily.asp?ag_id=47389

Gerti dear

The offer carried blessings of Prince through Amjad - personal friend of Prince - even closer friend of Rodgers.

Was made known to Governments.!
Why do you think JAKIM have been here four times in the last eighteen months?
AQIS make it impossible PUSHING Live Trade!

Beattie was interested but his RH was a live cattle exporter.

Rodgers been around a long time and plays the game too!

I admire Rodger but hes harldy going to help any opposition now is he?


He`d be checked "very quickly" if he played "outside the PLAN"

Its "controlled" Yabby as to "how much" red meat verses live goes "where"

To get a export licence AQIS have to approve your Halal accreditation?
Think about it Yabby .
Ever tried getting a export licence 'for Halal' Meat through AQIS Yabby.?

Its REAL Interesting how AQIS operate over the phone with overseas. Its actually a risk to national sercurity.

Its controlled by "the industry that are in bed with the Government".

Of course I have been to sale yards and its NOT the place for this.
The farmers would chase the Muslims out of town and you well know it.

What I want is representation at the trade faires world wide just "like everybody else."- AND for Animal Welfare Groups to get involved- which isnt going to happen - RSPCA National were invited to JOIN this movement? By Muslim Leaders everywhere?

You have to remember Austrade and MLA are 'supposed' to not favour any particular business owners and only be there to support ALL.

I didnt ask them to give us the names of the Live Importers Yabby.
That wouldnt be neccessary but now that you mention it they have no right to keep it a secret from the public who pay tax to support the live trade.


Its protect the cruel live trade and DONT help anybody kicking off ANYTHING in opposition to it.
Thats the truth Yabby the darkness was upon the face of the workers and they spoke amoungst themselves, saying, Its a crock of SH and it stinks".

Yes it's a concern about Mr Rudd, TarynW.

It's early days though and we shall allow him time to attend to all his immediate duties.

In the meantime, I shall continue networking, overseas and here, alerting all to the horrors of the live exports.

I shall use my endeavours to alert Yvo de Boer, head of the UN Climate Secretariat, to the eco vandalism committed by Australia's bully boys who continue dumping contaminated, dead animals and tonnes of sewage into international waters thus polluting the food chain.

The Stockholm Convention's edicts are to come into force next year, where all signatories (including Australia) must "eliminate or mitigate" their formations of dioxins - not increase them as Australia continues to do.

Humans ingest 97% of the lethal dioxins from the consumption of meat and dairy products. No country can continue exacerbating this ecological disaster by wilfully feeding dioxins to marine life.

http://www.agobservatory.org/library.cfm?refID=72846

http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache:Aj05DB7DSAkJ:www.planetark.org/dailynewsstory.cfm/newsid/16635/newsDate/1-Jul-2002/story.htm+dioxins+sheep+levels&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=14&gl=au&lr=lang_en

http://www.epa.gov/msw/backyard/health.htm

If Mr Rudd remains incapable of differentiating between ecology and mythology (propagated by these louts,) then we can be assured that he too will go the same way as Mr Howard, currently this nation's top eco vandal.

*The farmers would chase the Muslims out of town and you well know it.*

Rubbish Gertrude and you know that. The saleyards are public areas
and anyone can go there and they do.

*What I want is representation at the trade faires world wide just "like everybody else*

You are free to go to a trade fair. Pay your thousands of $ as we
all have, display your products, see how far you get :)

As to Austrade including you, it is their job to pass good judgement
Including what is essentially an animal welfare group, in a meat
industry display, is not good judgement! You are not even qualified
to sell meat. Have you passed the test? Not anyone can sell
meat you know. Just because you are a member of the public, does
not entitle you to do as you please, when it comes to Austrade or
MLA.

Now to Dickie, who last week was outraged about algae, this week
its dioxin. She forgets of course, that these animals have and
are regularly passed by various health authorities as quite fit
for human consumption. But it seems oceans are now threatened, as
whilst humans may safely consume them, fish may not!

Hehe, what a comedy team we have on this thread :)

"Hehe, what a comedy team we have on this thread :"

Indeed we do Yabby. And we also have one big verbose ignoramus.

Despite the very credible links I last posted on dioxins (PCDDs,) you continue to make a complete goose of yourself.

Those links came from the European Union, The Institute for Agriculture and Trade and USEPA.

"that these animals have and are regularly passed by various health authorities as quite fit for human consumption."

Is that so Yabby? You're a liar. And they certainly are not tested for dioxins. One test alone is in the vicinity of $2000. You would not know a dioxin from the pox and testing for contaminants in livestock in Australia is voluntary.

However "random samples collected for the 20th ATDS in 2000/2001 were analysed for dioxins. For the general population, over 95% of exposure to dioxins is through the diet, with foods of animal origin such as meat, dairy products and fish being the main sources." (National Dioxins Programme Aust.)

And Dumbo continues to deny that dioxins are in meat and dairy products!

"DAFF does not support the routine testing of livestock commodities but would consider further testing in ten years subject to resources."

And surprise surprise, Yabby, sheep contained the highest levels of dioxins. Most of the animals "overboard" would be sheep, is that not correct?

Future Plans of the Federal Government:

"National Dioxins Program – National Action Plan for addressing dioxins in Australia diet.

"Work with Australian animal production industries to support implementation of voluntary measures to address hazards, including dioxins, in animal feeds."

And what voluntary measures would you adopt Yabby to ensure your sheep are safe for human consumption. Zilch?

And due to your ignorance about your own trade, Yabby, I hasten to inform you that the above, officially documented advice is solely from the Federal Government.

State governments, like you , remain asleep at the wheel.

The live export industry should be refused access to the oceans of this planet, and legal action instigated forthwith for breaches of the "Laws of the Sea."

Dickie, if you really are concerned about polluting the oceans,
go back in history a little. I remind you of the Europeans and
Americans, who dumped boatload after boatload of 44 gallon drums
filled with industrial toxins, into the world's oceans. Now they
simply take them out to sea and burn them out there in big ships.

As to Australian livestock and the relatively pristine conditions
that they live in, I remind you what happened in Belgium. Industrial
waste was being mixed into livestock feed, as nearly all livestock
in Europe, exist under hugely intenive conditions, compared to most
of ours, which live contented lives out in a natural environment.

As we are an agriculatural exporter however, we are compelled to test
for all sorts of things, which we do. The role of the NRS is
exactly that and we pay levies, in part to finance these tests.

When the Belgium story blew wide open, dioxins were yet another
group of chemicals that were tested for in Australia. The results
were extremely good and justified the claim of our pristine
environment, the safety of our products.

Not everyone, unlike you, jumps at every shadow. Not everyone,
unlike you, has an agenda about keeping livestock more like pets.

Now you want to threaten Mr Rudd, if he doesent see the world as
you do. Ah well, perhaps the libs might win the next election
after all :)

Yabby

You miss my point. Which is I can prove that many Asian Maylasian and a few ME people havve contacted several Farmers Federations direct over a long peroid of time.
They have requested to be introduced to Farmers and asked for help to let it be known they were interested to meet with them direct regarding establishing Halal Abattoirs and paying them a GOOD price for stock and supply.
Its NOT the Muslims that are not interested in opening plants here it the Government BLOCKING them and protecting their Industry buddies!

Farmers Federation heads are NOT there to make descions for farmers.
They are there in inform them of ALL offers .

Now as for Austrade its a federal Government funded body to promote ALL ventures and represent ALL people to promote ideads and business ventures from Australia to the world.

Again I can introduce you to four very successful butchers and growers who have approached Austrade to promote joint ventures and export red meat.
NONE of them were assisted!
As for going to trade faires why shouldnt we or any of these butchers be allowed to - put in their thousands to attend BUT recieve the Funding through MLA Austrade etc that the others do.?
Thats right I guess Yabby.
I am not selling meat.
I am just going what Mark Vaile was SUPPOSED to be doing for years!
Promoting and encouraging overseas interest in a partnership to increase exprts from Australia.
I will let you in on a little sectrey secret Yabby.
Its only when a country is exporting more than its importing its running properly.

As for the disease in dumping toured Animals in the sea the fact remains Australian tax payers have had to send millions off in the past as hush money to familes of the unfortunate they contaminated.
So dickes spot on.

"When the Belgium story blew wide open, dioxins were yet another
group of chemicals that were tested for in Australia. The results
were extremely good and justified the claim of our pristine
environment, the safety of our products." Yabby)

Please substantiate your claims. Which laboratory performed the tests for dioxins? Were they accredited? On which animals were the tests performed, were they random and what were the results?

And a link to support your claims is essential.

Dickie
Look at this>
Something tells me the wording red meat Industry which is normally directed at chilled meat will be live exports.
http://www.farmonline.com.au/news_daily.asp?ag_id=47442

Speaking of porkies heres a good one-

http://www.farmonline.com.au/news_daily.asp?ag_id=47443

Last one Picture of Tony Burke for is visiting poultry , feed lots etc today tomorrow.
http://www.farmonline.com.au/news_daily.asp?ag_id=47445

Now Yabby
You say not everyone can sell meat. We have a company Halal Kind Meats and we have worked with THE Muslim Leaders of Australia who do accreditations for Halal.

I reckon that makes us more qualified than you.

Interesting you say why should Austrade and MLA include you?

Umm Thanks Yabbs that was my whole point.

Why do you think Austrade and MLA have the right to CONTROL who gets to promote their products , marketing ideas and who doesnt.?

That would be infearing with our company Yabby. That is what we are claiming has gone on.

No Yabby You dont go trudging through the sale yards with Mufti in toe in the bush talking about setting up co joint ventures. Very funny.
That reminds me of a story I heard back from a AMIEU head up here in QLD about four years ago.
Old Brett was in a bar of a little country pub when he said to some local farmers- Why dont you help me start these co joint ventures with the Muslims boys.
I cant repeat the language but comments such as pissing off the Muslims out of the country and that they had best stay in the city was flowing thick and fast before he found himself drinking alone.

Then he looked up to see a couple of good looking ladies walk through the door and towards him so his spirits lifted.
They said to him-
"Why dont you leave the poor animals alone you cruel bastard."

He was wearing his AMIEU shirt.

Very Funny. Not a good day for our lad.

No Yabby we wont be selling in pubs or sale yards.
WE will be given the SAME oportunity as the live exporters through MLA and Austrade OR we call an enquiry.

*They are there in inform them of ALL offers .*

Gertrude, I think its completely lost on you, how these
organisations function or what their role is. Anyone
who works for these organisations is paid to pass good
judgement. Every day, dreamers will stream through the
door with all sorts of crazy ideas. They will filter
all this and pass on what they think is suitable,
othewise members would be overwhelmed with hairbrain
schemes of all sorts.

Now you are free to kid yourself what their role should
be, but thats it. Thats your problem, not their problem.

If anyone is serious about opening a meat processing plant,
most State Govts have Depts of Trade Development. But people
need to have serious credentials, not just be more dreamers
from overseas or anywhere else.

Anyone who is serious about exports, which can be a complex
business and is not for dreamers, can establish an export
company without the help of Austrade. In fact, if they are
relying on Austrade to make it happen, IMHO its going to
fail anyhow. It needs alot more then that and its not
for the fainthearted. You have rules of the jungle out
there, but few understand all that. I do, as I did it all
and without Austrade or any other Govt assistance.

Dickie, here is your URL. The testing was done in NZ.

http://www.environment.gov.au/settlements/publications/chemicals/dioxins/report-8/index.html

.

Yabby
Who do you think you are talking to?
Dont give me that bull about Austrade and MLA.
Yes its easier to just go ahead and do it without them. I couldnt agree more with you.
However few have the capasity to fly their staff word wide promoting products without some sort of Government support.
That Government support and those grants are used widely by the others.
Why should the public purse ONLY be used to support the live trade?
That IS whats happening and WAS my point.
Its clear you have never dealt on a Govenment to Government level Yabby because let me assure you! overeas DO expect Australia and MLA to support their progects

Gertrude, I am more and more convinced that you don't have the foggiest about how this industry actually works.

Last time I looked, to obtain a meat export licence you need to
be accredited by Ausmeat.

http://www.ausmeat.com.au/cs/training/Form%20ATR914%20NPE%20Course%20Outline%201.6.pdf

That will set you back 1900$, just for the course. Are you even
qualified to sell meat? Have you ever sold any meat overseas?

How MLA spends its money is determined by its 42'000 members, who
are not only levy payers but also taxpayers. If you are a member,
you are free to go to the AGM and promote your views, like anyone
else.

Last time I looked, if you spend over 30K$ on export marketing,
Austrade will refund a portion of that, the first 15k$ is yours
to wear. But you are not even an exporter AFAIK.

Govts to not buy and sell meat, not the Australian Govt anyhow.
They facilitate some things, establish certain protocols, shake
a few hands to make it look official, etc. After the Cormo story,
they had to establish MOUs with some ME countries, so that the
same thing would not happen again.

If there are all these higher paying markets out there which you
claim, why don't they pay higher prices to a farmers coop selling
farmers meat directly?

You wanted my honest opinion and that is that I think you are dreaming.

Yabby
I appreciate your comments even if you think I dont.

Your right and so am I. The answer to the question is yes- we have our own label.

Thats not hard. To be really honest I am tired.

I will leave Dickie to comment on the MOUs making things better.?

Maybe you think I am a bit odd rushing off and doing deals with Muslim leaders etc BUT there is a method in my madness.

From a seed grows a plant.


It wont be pale of any other group that finally changes things either.
It will be inderpendant people like Dickie and yourself working together.

Your in a perfect postion to look at changes even though I know your not interested.

I am just saying that the Dickies, Wendys, Taryns , Antjes of this world need Yabbies because you DO know some basic stuff required.
But You need us Too. We can all contribute.
We are far from stupid.

It doesnt take a soft hearted pussy cat to be involved in this industry. You and I both know that.

Your certainly a safe bet there Yabbs. However-

I believe in `your own way` you have tried to assist by being brutally honest over the last couple of years.

I do get upset when you tear into Dickie Yabby because Dickies not stupid and your both in WA.

Together If you wanted you could change the face of the live trade down there.

I just CANT do it from up here and not alone.

The good thing has been that plenty of Muslims "LOVE" the idea of the disease free Aussie farms and Halal Slaughter plants.

Lets just call it like it is shall we?
The Muslims or Islamic movemment is huge world wide.
They DO want to control Australia AND the world IMOP.
If they are to take control of the meat Industry in Australia then lets help them to make it humane profitable and In Australia`s best interests.
For the sake of the Amimals if not the future generation of this country.
PS Merry Christmass Dickie and Yabbs

Merry Christmas to you too Gertrude.

Dickie deserves what she gets from me. She's rude and
arrogant, she dishes it out, she gets it back. I don't
turn the other cheek lol.

Whilst I might not agree with your suggestions, at least
you, as about the only one in the animal libber movement,
realise that we are not about to dig pits and bury 4 million
sheep or close down tens of thousands of farmers, as some
of them might wish.

I've seen the other side of farming that these people don't
know about. People living in the back of shearing sheds,
to make a go of things. Yup they care about their animals,
far more then many city pet owners. Not all, but most.
Yup, they treat them as livestock and not family pets,
there is a difference that many don't understand. Free range
animals don't want to be mollycoddled, they are quite happy
out there, doing their thing.

Lots is changing, who knows where it will end up. We used to
have a wool industry, prices dropped so low that half the
Australian flock vanished, as traders screwed farmers.

Now we have a prime lamb industry, once again Australians
are outdiscounting one another and NZ, then calling that
marketing. Now I'm seeing whole huge flocks of sheep sold
off, as people switch to cropping. Perhaps in a couple of
years it will turn to biofuels stage 2 in the form of
biomass. We live in a changing and uncertain world right now.

Whatever the outcome, we need all round win-win solutions,
something that much of the animal libber and veggie movement
has overlooked to a large extent.

Yabby
I have Dickies tag- Gurtrude. I dont mind.
Now you know very well I am not a libber Yabbs.
The problem as I see it is that both yourself and Dickie are mis lead to a point.
Dickie while not working with any group clearly does follow their way of thinking.

Its really hard Yabby to see where the problem lies without first hand knowledge.
You know the meat trade is very involved and its as dirty as it can be.
Its on a par with petrol.
Its not going to happen but I would like to see some groups put their time into working with farmers to push MLA - the Government the councils and the Industry to re open plants.

Yes I hear you- Your saying. Nobody will work in plants.
Thats easily solved If the Governments get behind it.

But they wont. There is only ONE reason Why Yabby and thats the truth.

I know you dont beleive me about whats going on in high places but your not sixteen anymore.

The whole world operates that way so why you cant see whats driving the live trade is beyond me.

After Christmass I will open a thread and tell yu just a little of what has gone on.

In the mean time lets both agree that the libbers or AA or whatever you call them have done more to expose the cruelty than Hugh Wirth of RSPCA for twenty years.

Yep - sure he has made comments about the cruelty each and every time its hit the media.
The question IS however why did others have to bring it to light?

Dickies a good person Yabby and a hundred percent right.

Ah Yes. The question is why black list pale because they have tried.
What REALLY lies behind some??[ excluding Dickie.]

Many thousands of good people are being mis lead by just one or two leaders of Animal Veggie groups.

WHY protest live exports = only to WSPA a world wide band on people working to reopen abattoirs?
Interesting isnt it?

Whats for Christmass Dinner Yabbs?

"Lots is changing, who knows where it will end up. We used to
have a wool industry, prices dropped so low that half the
Australian flock vanished, as traders screwed farmers."

Spare us the tear jerkers, Yabby. Unlike you, we are not total drongoes.

2005-2006 saw wool production at 472 kts. 2006-2007 saw production at 465 kts and ABARE's projection for 2008 is 475 kts so quit ya sookin'.

The insignificant reduction in 06/07 was due to an increase in slaughter and a preference for prime lambs. You can't have it both ways, Yabby.

And any decrease in wool exports was mitigated by higher average prices.

Forecasts for 07/08 gross value of sheep and lamb slaughter predict a 22% increase over the 06/07 year.

NZ's wool production for the September quarter in 2006 saw a 27% increase for exports to China and 18.4% increase for wool exports to Italy.

And how are those pimples on ya tongue Yabby and I trust your Pinocchio nose is standing up to the cold weather in WA?

"Whatever the outcome, we need all round win-win solutions,
something that much of the animal libber and veggie movement
has overlooked to a large extent." (Yabby)

Yes I agree Yabby. To date only you and your criminal associates are winning but only in dollar terms by relishing the torture you perpetrate on other species.

Here's some government propaganda (relating to the WTO) where our hypocritical Australian leaders take the high moral ground:

"Protect our sovereignty
(we can safeguard national security and protect public morals)

"Protect our human, animal and plant life

"Conserve our natural resources and ensure environmental protection."

Protect animal life and the environment? Protect public morals? They must be joking?

And here's the first betrayal by our new government.

http://www.abc.net.au/rural/wa/content/2006/s2118261.htm

BTW, I received another response (written in Arabic) to one of my articles to institutes in the UK, US, Asia and the Middle East.

I am keen to keep this dialogue going with the ME. Is there anyone out there who is proficient in the Arabic language!?

"we are not total drongoes."

Actually it seems that you are Dickie :)

You clearly don't have the foggiest about the long term
nature of agriculture. A decision made on farm today,
can take years to show up in the figures.

Now be a good girl and go and have a look at wool production
and the size of the sheep flock in the early 90s, compared
to today.

"Now be a good girl and go and have a look at wool production
and the size of the sheep flock in the early 90s, compared
to today."

Perhaps your failure at wool production could be due to your zest for intensive farming and overstocking. Your Western Australian sheep have a high rate of cheesy gland. This of course reduces profits in wool (and meat) where these poor critters should be destroyed or perhaps off-loaded to other countries??

But I digress. Of course you were only scolding me from your own narrow perceptions. You know......"it's all about me. Me, me."

Hmm...you haven't developed any cheesy abscesses lately have you Yabby?

http://www.agric.wa.gov.au/content/pw/ah/dis/sl/fn2005_cheesy_gland.pdf

But of course, many farmers, more efficient in animal husbandry than you, appear to be making remarkable progress in wool production, up greatly in yield over the last 40 years.

http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache:0a8E_B38zMgJ:www2.dpi.qld.gov.au/sheep/4993.html+wool+production+1990s+and+2005&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=4&gl=au&lr=lang_en

Never mind Farmer Yabs. Did I see you've now won over Fiji to export misery and death to that region and the once pristine South Pacific?

Splendid! Imagine all those dead and diseased animals, faeces and urine Fiji's marine life can now enjoy as an entree.

http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache:R8e8LVk9K4IJ:www.oceansatlas.com/cds_static/en/suva_fiji_south_pacific_ocean__en_19450_all_1.html+fiji+pacific+ocean+pollution+marine&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=au&lr=lang_en

ROFl Dickie, I just love it when somebody who hasn't the foggiest
about Australian agriculture, agro economics etc, tries to pretend
that they know something :)

As it happens, Australian dryland agriculture, as distinct from
American, European, Chinese, etc, is some of the most extensive
in the world, now you blame it all on intensive farming.

Have you never heard of the cost/price squeeze that's gone on
in agriculture here, for the last 50 years or so? Do you know
the first thing about farming?

Cheesy gland is vaccinated against, perhaps thats just another
thing that you didn't know.

Dickie, you really should get that Arabic letter translated.
Perhaps its an Arab sheik who wants an another old duck for
his harem :)

.

"Cheesy gland is vaccinated against, perhaps thats just another
thing that you didn't know."

There you go again Yabby. More pimples on that tongue.

Australian sheep have the highest incidence of cheesy gland in the world.

If they were vaccinated, then they wouldn't have cheesy gland, would they, Pinocchio Nose?

http://www2.dpi.qld.gov.au/sheep/8151.html

"Dickie, you really should get that Arabic letter translated.
Perhaps its an Arab sheik who wants an another old duck for
his harem :)"

Ooohhhhh.....a Freudian slip Yabby? I've long suspected that you fancy me. That's why you won't go away isn't it?

Now now Farmer Yab. Don't let your mind wander. It's too small to be let out alone.

Anyway you don't seem to be yourself today Yabby. I noticed the improvement immediately.

And you'll be delighted to know that my sex life isn't dead yet but the buzzards are circling.

Mmmm.........eeny meeny miney mo?

Nah...... me Mum always told me that life's too short to dance with ugly men!

I'll go for Sheik luvvyduks and his harem, thanks.

*Of the adult sheep slaughtered in Australia, 0.5 to 1 percent are condemned due to cheesy gland.*

From your website. Oops, only 99.5% were vaccinated! We forgot
the hobby farmers, oh deary deary me.

*I'll go for Sheik luvvyduks and his harem, thanks.*

You go girl! I hope you will be truly happy. :)

.

Interim score:

Yabby: 57

PALE et al: 4

Ah there you are C J Morgan. Got nothing better to do eh?

Why don't you slip into something comfy - like a coma!

"Of the adult sheep slaughtered in Australia, 0.5 to 1 percent are condemned due to cheesy gland." (Pinocchio Nose)

Now there he goes again. He knows the real figures but Pinocchio has to "air brush" them by quoting percentages.

Now let's see. I shall go for 1% since farmed goats too are riddled with cheesy gland and are sent off to a gruesome fate on the ships of shame also.

So 1 percent of 100 million sheep equals...errrr..... 1 million sheep! Yep 1 million have cheesy gland at a loss of $15 million per year. Strewth, no more lamb for this old duck!

Anyone for yoghurt?

"Cost to industry

"Cheesy gland costs producers and processors an estimated $15 million dollars every year. It accounts for approximately 50 per cent of all carcass condemnations in Australian abattoirs. Of the adult sheep slaughtered in Australia, 0.5 to 1 percent are condemned due to cheesy gland.

"The major effect of the disease is that many countries reject Australia's lamb and mutton. A number of other countries insist that only carcasses completely free of cheesy gland are acceptable for their markets."

So the spivs in the live export industry are sending diseased and unvaccinated animals to the ME and elsewhere eh?

Poor ole Pinocchio Nose. Lies, lies, and more misinformation. Some sort of psychotic disorder, I s'pose.

Well, I confess - I don't know what his problem is but I bet it's hard to pronounce!

Ah Dickie, a story online, just for you!

http://www.farmonline.com.au/news_daily.asp?ag_id=47540

Confirms my story about the huge drop in sheep numbers,
to as low as the 1920s.


0.5% to 1% seen in context, its trivial. Thats 16c
a head for our sheep flock, would feed em each for about
a day. As I stated, we are down to hobby farmer numbers.
It would not even pay for the plastic tags in their ears.

But of course you have never been known to let the truth
interfere with your stories, nothing changes lol.

"But of course you have never been known to let the truth
interfere with your stories, nothing changes lol."

Ah yes truth. Truth is what is violated when evil men descend into unconscionable depravity to make a fast buck from the blood of the defenceless.

Truth is what is manipulated when the corporate cockroaches of this nation influence those who strut our halls of parliament.

Rest assured Yabby your own Armageddon is nigh. Mother Nature is taking care of that and you, a member of the ignorant and evil,have violated her system of justice and that of this nation.

But your time is nigh and we shall rejoice - hallelujah hallelujah.

This then is truth:

http://www.news.com.au/perthnow/story/0,21598,22948913-2761,00.html

Mr Flugge et al eh? Friends of yours Yabby? Ah...Karma how sweet she is!

http://www.animal-lib.org.au/subjects/subjects/sheep--live-export.htm

4,000 tonnes of animal faeces and up to 6 million litres of urine dumped from the ships of shame for every single voyage. Wow!

http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:sz0e41mclaMJ:sweetness-light.com/archive/the-eid-festival-around-the-world-graphic-photos+animal+torture+muslim+festivals&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=au&lr=lang_en

This is what our animals must endure. You really are a sick, twisted little man, aren't you Yabby.

Dickie
Can put you in contact with Someone to translate your letters and probably support you as well.

Muslim Leader and Lawyer.
I wont post contact on OLO
Can you call or email.

Re Rudd
Write and ask him WHEN hes going to resume the funding for AWB?
Tell him that would be the SAME AWB that he DID NOT want to inform the public about at the AWB enquiry.

Ask him Why he headed for the hills when he was asked to inform the public the money to HS was NOT just wheat but the blood money from the evil live animal trade.

The Kerry Obrien thingy was for two reasons.

One to account for' certain' Animal Welfare groups to encourage their members to vote ALP.

I can assure you I spoke with Kerry Obrien several times over the last few years and he had Zilch concern for Animals or intention of reopeining abattoirs in Australia.

Then I was told that Jack Lake was a good bloke according to /
Huh! Lake is the idiot that lost Kym his seat. Jack Lake has NEVER even shown one second concern- trust me.

Yabby
You seem to make a mountain of complications out of slaughtering some animals before they go and sending them in a box.

Its not rocket science and there is NO excuse for sending animals on such long journies alive.

But alas- There is but ONE Answer- BEFORE ALP tripple live exports[ and they will]
-- Work with Muslims overseas to reopen plants HERE.

They have offered. They have the funds- DESPITE, MLA Austrade and others ONLY pushing live animal trade WE have the contacts.

BUT They want to meet farmers without Government officials calling the agenda AND Farmers Federation REFUSE to assist.
No Yabby I bloody well cant afford to spend thousands adversting in papers!
I have done the Ms of trades job for the last four years.
I have the MOUs with Muslim Councils Aboriginal Councils.

Now its the others turn to take us up on these contacts!

CJ- Dickie isnt pale fyi

*Rest assured Yabby your own Armageddon is nigh.
But your time is nigh and we shall rejoice - hallelujah hallelujah.*

Ah Dickie, you sound just like those JWs who come knocking on
my door! Yours is the same religious fervour, just a different
song sheet that you sing from. Just as fanatical as BD and
his ilk. yawn Extremists are extremists, nothing changes.

Gertrude, there is lots going on in the meat industy that you
clearly don't know about and I don't bother to tell you.
You girls are quite happy creating your little strawman
scenarios and then arguing about them, ok, it keeps you
happy and occupied. Dickie goes to bed each night, feeling
content that she has told us so called evil people what she
thinks, she got it off her chest and now feels better. All
very good therapy for her at her age :)

The reality of the industry is quite complex, lots of political
discussions going on at the moment about automation, EPA laws,
livestock values and many other things. Ripper has just told
us that our WA economy in fact grew at 7%, the tourism places
can't even find staff to serve tourists a cup of coffee!

Fertiliser prices have basically doubled in the last 2 years,
so I think alot of people will bail out of livestock, where
they are losing money and grow more crops. We'll see, given
that there is now a link between energy for cars and people.
The US has just approved far more ethanol production for future
years, lots is likely to change here because of that.

We live in changing times, but certainly your notions of rushing
out to reopen plants which don't exist in WA, are clearly flawed.
Its pointless to even explain these things, its like water off
a ducks back lol. Your have your set little notions of how you
think the world is and no matter what I say, nothing will
change those.

Thanks for that TarynW

I am hoping to hear shortly from the Islamic Institute, which I contacted again, requesting a translation to English in their correspondence.

So Australia's down from 100 million sheep to 91 million, according to the MLA.

It's no wonder when 120,000 sheep or goats are crammed onto each ship of shame for the Hajj Blood Bath where these charmers slaughter and devour around 2 million animals:

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5jLhPWr4F3rX39DaZlQ6MZh48gA0g

Dickie, I remind you that Australians slaughter and devour tens
of millions of chickens, ducks, turkeys, sheep, cattle, pigs,
goats, kangaroos, rabbits, crocs, etc. Get over it.

DEATH SHIP
(by Jenny Moxham)

When they sailed away from Devonport and left Australia's shore,
'Twas as well the 50,000 sheep knew not what lay in store.
The ship, the Al Messilah, was headed for Kuwait,
Her hapless cargo destined for a cruel and gruesome fate.

Three weeks or more they'd spend at sea in a cramped and tiny space,
Where many a sheep would die before they reached that foreign place.
Three weeks in a stifling putrid pen in ammonia laden air,
That would aggravate and blind the eyes, the pain beyond compare.

And when they finally reached the port and stood on land once more,
Their joy would quickly turn to dread at the sounds and sights they saw.
Strange men with sticks would beat them and would tie their legs together,
And lock them in the boots of cars in searing, scorching weather.

And some of them would die in pens, the heat too much to stand,
So different from the climate of their temperate southern land,
And others sent to slaughter would be thrown down side by side,
To await their agonizing death in terror, bound and tied.

Each one would see the ones ahead receive their cut of death,
Convulsing as they choked on blood and struggling for breath,
Each one that sailed from Devonport would meet a fearsome fate,
Each sheep upon that Ship of Death now headed for Kuwait.

In February 2006, 50,000 sheep left Devonport bound for Kuwait. Protesters in dinghies and kayaks attempted to block the ships entry to the port and painted the words "Death Ship on the side of the vessel

The Slaughtermen of Bassatin


The slaughtermen of Bassatin

Were brandishing their knives.

The slaughtermen of Bassatin

Were bent on taking lives.

They cut the cattle's tendons

And ignored their anguished cries,

The torturemen of Bassatin

Then stabbed them in the eyes.

In the Bassatin slaughterhouse in Egypt, slaughtermen disable cattle by cutting the tendons of their legs then plunging a long knife through the eye which then serves as a handle to jerk the animals head around for ritual slaughte

Ah, such romantic poetry Dickie. Now perhaps you can write
one about those cute little piggies etc, who land up as
pork chops on the Woolies and Coles meat counter.

Clearly you still can't get over it :)

Ah there is a Santa> ABW Enquiry to continue

http://www.farmonline.com.au/news_daily.asp?ag_id=47625

Mind You I dont think they will have the powers without ACCC.

Yabby
What did I say to you ages ago?
I said the co joint ventures were NOT just about abattoirs and Halal Plants but Halal vegtables too= A huge! demand for them world wide.

Like I said many a time before Yabby its not rocket science to slaughter animals BEFORE they go overseas.

Its also a load of Industry crap that we cant get staff.

We can get staff all right through the GATS system.
The same sytem thats used for EVERYTHING Else BAR abattoirs.

The description Dickie gave of conditions in slaughter houses is correct.

You simply dont care.

Some farmers do care and wont sell their cattle for live export.
I know quite a few .

Your not one= Ok . I get that.

I hate what you do and where you send Animals but I wont stop you or anybody else for a while yet.

What WILL stop live exports is the Muslims themselves as they take more control and involvement of Halal in Australia.

Ho Ho Ho
And look what the RSPCA QLD Santa delivered to pale.
Two brand new computers with instructions to go get Yabby! Ho Ho Ho.
Merry Christmass all

Ah Gertrude, thats good news about the computers, the spelling
might finally improve!

Ok, so the RSPCA have lots of money to throw at a mere
crustacean... :)

Yabby
Yes Santa game dressed in "greens" this year!
Especially in WA

We pre judged that dirty little trick Rudd pulled with Obrien and Tony Burke.

I would have "thought" Rudd may have had enough of the name but apparently not.

See you in the Senate. Yaba Daba Do!
Ho Ho Ho

From Wendy , Antje Taryn To Yabby Christmass 2007

THE DOMINION OF MAN

Can you hear them?
Can you hear the ships' sheep crying,
Hear the harpooned whale's scream, dying,
Hear the politicians, that are lying?
Can you hear them?

Can you see them?
When you close your eyes to pray,
Do images seem to stay
Of sheep and cattle herded away,
And goats ill-treated by farmers every day?
Can you see them?

Can you smell them?
The livestock in their filthy pens,
The cattle's blood left in the dust by men,
The slaughter house floor where once life had been?
Can you smell them?

Can you feel them?
When you devour your sheep from the docks,
Can you feel the pens that snap shut and lock?
When you prepare your meat for the wok
Can you feel the pierced eyes of the cattle in the stock?
Can you feel them?

Can you imagine
What humans do to creatures every day,
The needless pain with which the helpless pay,
"For a line in a book of God", some say,
Gives man the right to do whatever he may?
Can you imagine?

http://www.geelongadvertiser.com.au/article/2007/12/20/9861_opinion.html

Ho hum....yawn

Nothing new here. They're at it again!

Violence begets violence, endorsed and legalised by this country's leaders where sadism rules. Yay!

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,22962873-2,00.html

Thought I would find you all here. Another year has past and we are still on the same topic ....

Anyway, just dropped in to say merry christmas. Think of me when you are getting stuck into that crackling on your pork roast - thats if its free range of course!

Ahhh, wonder which one will get to the keyboard first to declare they are having lentils (or some other delectable veggie fare) for xmas dinner!

Hope santa stuffs exactly what you want in your stockings this year girls.

PF
Perfect- a blast from the past. What Christmass would be the same without a parting shot from PF.
No Freee Range Pork In QLD PF I can assure you.
It seems that all the save babe and other movements have had zero effect on the industrty.
It may raise some funds for groups but it does little otherwise.

Until everybody gets involved in going one step further and opening up heaps more free range farms nothings going to change and its as simple as that.

We can talk about it until the cows come home but more active approaches are required.

No- all the "good little Christians" will be munching on their intensive farmed hams while passing out millions of dollars of gifts to their little darlings.

All very nice people - Of Course!

I wonder If you sent Kevin 07 a free Range Ham PF?

I note Yabbs didnt get included in your wish list.
Is he off your Christmass card list?

All Jokes aside Merry Christmass to you PF at least YOUR able to say you have done all you can to produce cruelty free meat.

Dont know where Yabbs is . He might still be out chasing his pet for the table.
Sentimental Chap isnt he Dickie.
Ho Ho Ho.

Merry Christmass to all

Merry Christmas Yabby

No pork for me PF. And no free-range within coo-ee of my region.

So what do you think of the latest report where APL's Andrew Spencer claims the industry is losing millions of dollars each week as subsidised imports flood the market?

Regardless of what we shall feast upon, I say "Peace Sisters" and wish you all an active and fruitful New Year.

May I suggest that where possible, we hold a candle-light vigil for our animal friends? I shall endeavour to meditate for these ill-treated critters close to 9pm Christmas Night. Just a couple of minutes and I trust that I may feel the presence of yourselves, in telepathic unity.

"Sheep Cloning"

"A toff, from the City of Perth, takes his young family to the country for Christmas holidays. As they were driving along, the 2 angelic kiddies cried: (In an AWFULLY upper class voice)

'Daddy, Daddy, what is that strange beast?'
'That, my children is a Cow.' (School curriculum doesn't cover livestock...)

More driving....

'Daddy, Daddy, What are all those creatures?'
'They, my children are sheep.' (Driving in the magnificent South West.)

More driving... more sheep.

'Daddy, Daddy, What is that man doing ?'
'Well, I'm not exactly sure, my angels..'
'Oh, But Daddy, we want to know,' chorused the children.
So Daddy parks up, and calls down to a man, bent over a sheep.

'I say, Country Yokel-Type person, are you shearing that sheep?'
The Yokel replies 'Whaatt D'Yer Zay, M'boy?'
'I said, are you shearing that sheep ?'

To which the yabbyxx err...yokel shouts, 'No - Bugger off and find yer own!'

Merry Christmas all!

Sorry do not want to get of thread, just dropped in to say merry Christmas all, yes every one.
My plate is full of farmed meat the bloke this thread was about John whats his name is full of humble pie.
Have a great Christmas I will thanks to short bottom.

Merry Christmass belly and John Dickie PF Yabbs and anybody reading this thread.

Dickie a speciaL thanks for your common deceny towards our fellow creatures and know you are making a difference.

Christmass Eve 2007

Ooh dickie, you have given me a few ideas now. I of course run
a commercial operation and last year in fact rented out a few
of my rams. The result was lots of fun for the boys, 420 lambs
on the ground and a healthy cheque for me!

There is no reason I could not start a new service. Given
your expression of love for sheep as pets, perhaps little old
animal libber ladies like yourself would like to rent a companion for the weekend.

Sounds like an interesting new business venture for me, some
fun and games for my boys and some err companionship for you
little old ladies who clearly love sheep :)

Merry Xmas!

dickie, Andrew Spencer is trying very hard to justify his over paid job. The amount of money APL throw away on incompetent staff when their members are going broke is criminal. We should be demanding cuts in that office immediately.

The productivity commission has ruled that there is no case for protection methods against imported pork. The WTO rules are tough and it is the drought that is mostly affecting the pig industry: along with the fact that they refuse to listen to consumers and change their factory farming methods.

Intensive pork is a hard sell and it is only going to get worse as people are making ethical choices about the food they eat.

Intensive piggeries have been closing their doors at a rapid rate and the latest PC decision will close a lot more that were hanging on in the hope of a favourable decision.

The pork industry, in my opinion, backed itself into this corner with bad marketing "the other white meat" and promoting pork as a 'cheap' meat. Along with the facts that intensive pork is dry and tasteless and grown in conditions that people find appalling, I think the writing is on the wall for them.

"The pork industry, in my opinion, backed itself into this corner with bad marketing "the other white meat" and promoting pork as a 'cheap' meat. Along with the facts that intensive pork is dry and tasteless and grown in conditions that people find appalling, I think the writing is on the wall for them."

PF, I do believe you are spot on.

Yesterday, at a festive gathering of good-natured friends, I overheard the hushed remarks about the roast pork on offer as being "dry and tasting like card-board."

Naturally, I was unable to resist joining in that conversation!

Perhaps, I shall email them the following video though knowledge can create anguish in those of "delicate" nature who prefer to see or hear no evils whilst feasting on the flesh of tortured pigs:

http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/video.asp?video=meet_your_meat&Player=flv

PF
Australian Pork assured me they were branching out and opening new Free Range Farms.
When I questioned them where? they went on to say several of their members were branching out.
This conversation took place three months ago when I contacted them to offer a meeting with Russian Business men to create several free range farms and other projects.
We invited Australian Pork and Woolworths to the table.

Ah, We are already on to that was the reply.
Umm I said may I enquire WHERE these new farms are to be established.?
Caught out they mentioned a few names of intensive breeders.

When I pointed out they were intensive breeders they claimed they were "re doing their pens."

When I pointed out that Free Range required much more land they replied they HAD required more.

When we offered to donate funds after seeing the new area where these pigs would be free ranged they claimed they had plenty of funding.

I know you are not surprised but I thought I would put on record on OLO what lies these Australian Pork heads "spin."

APL policy:

Tell them what they want to hear, but NEVER put it in writing.
Protect the intensive farmers at all costs, even at the expense of free range members.

I believe they HAD great plans of developing a free range standard and label that encompassed pigs grown out in sheds. They will now try and save the pork industry by duping the public and trying to cash in on free range demand. There is a lot happening to prevent that and public support and awareness is the key.

http://www.pigout.net.au

Have you done the survey yet?

PF

Dont worry we we ALL being doing it.

Is there a mail address on it.? I cant see one. We want to print out as many as possible and attend shopping centers. I dont have a lap top but I could buy one especially for this if its only electronic.
Also I want to get your survey up on OLO asap.

I am trying to figure out how we can get the survey into some news papers and letter box drops.

I am happy to pay for the letter box drops but I think we will collect them ourselves to ensure they are sent.

We can do Gold Coast Brisbane are but the others Dickie and Suzzanne Caz would have to enquire who does letter box drops in their areas.
Given the nature of this I think shopping centers are the way to go.


There is a new years party on monday with about five hundred going.

I am going to ask Mark to put it on RSPCA QLD anyway.
Hes about the best of them all .

Did you see Babe was on TV on Christmass night.?

Look I think Nicky and Dickie especially would be happy to help PF.

Perhaps If we send you a donation to be spread around you would be kind enough to be the Co-ordinator?

I would not interfear PF . We would be happy to follow your istructions.

That would pay for shopping center space and some adds.

Have you tried to put it on OLO ?

There is an area there for petitions and such. Or will I ask GY to put it up.?

I am not aware of an area to post surveys on OLO. Can you enlighten me?

There is an email link on the site pig_out@bigpond.com

There is also a link at the bottom of the page that sends out to a list of your contacts. A good way to get the message out there too.

http://www.pigout.net.au

PF
This is the are I was refering to. Which reminds me Dickie if you are reading this or Nicky- Any others you want put up we will request if its members only.
I honestly dont know.
http://petitions.nationalforum.com.au/
The thing is PF once its on the net through OLO if its promoted through UL links enough it should be circulated.

What I was asking was this- Is there no ordinary address we can send filled out survey forms to?

If we print out the forms and attend shopping centers andlots of people wish to fill them out by hand- Where do we post them to please?

As you have not answered our question about us donating some funds to promote this survey through newspapers and letter box drops I wont bother you with it anymore.

We are happy to help anyway we can.
Dickie if you are reading this page please note ideas and give us your thoughts.
We will get these out in letter boxes to our locals and asist anybody else who wishes to do likewise with some funds.
Opos I guess we ought to put our own Live Export Petition up on OLO too.
That was a bit slack of pale.

Thanks for all your efforts PF Dickie Nicky and all others
From The Animals.

Thanks for that.

If you send an email to pig_out@bigpond.com they will let you know the postal address and will send the survey to you in pdf format for easy printing.

PALE

I've posted this bit from the "Petition" section as an example. Now PF if you were prepared to word the petition appropriately, couldn't these be posted or emailed to participants for printing and distributing?

We could then go door knocking, approaching friends and into shops requesting they be displayed for customers' signatures and finally collected and returned to the free-range pig survey address that you advised.

The petition would probably need to run for some six months.

Collecting signatures and returning them would be the extent of my contribution at present. I happen to be in "no-man's land," for the time-being awaiting the long delayed settlement date (now imminent)for house purchase, an exodus to a new "land", and the commitments to boot, set to remain for some three months hence!

EXAMPLE ONLY:

"The petition of certain citizens of Australia draws to the attention of the House and Senate the fact that:

the quality of Australia's pig imports and the intensively farmed method of growing pigs for consumption in Australia has raised many issues of concern amongst the following signatories. We respectfully request that ??........................................................................................................................

Name:.......................................... Location:................................................ Comments: ______________________________________________________________________

______________________________________________________________________

______________________________________________________________________

Dickie

I am not sure however I think PF wants to concentrate on getting the survey out.

I thought the petition was for Rudd Government re Kerry O’Brien’s pe election promises not being honored.

That said we can do both.

Here is the petition [suggestion only] for the pigs.
See what PF thinks.
She could change the words and exchange thoughts.

[Suggestion One]=Petition to Stop Intensive Farming of Pigs

[Suggestion Two]= Petition to Demand Clear Labeling Of Pork

.Products For Free Range.

To The Honorable the President and Members of the Senate in Parliament assembled:
The Petition of the undersigned protests in the strongest possible terms against the Intensive farming of Australian pigs.

.Lack of Laws.
``There are no fixed standards against which to measure descriptions such as `free range' and `bred free range' and, further, shoppers cannot be certain as to what they are buying.
Animals housed in large sheds and which scarcely see daylight are being sold off as Free Range due to lack of labeling laws.
`` Free-range animals should have access to pasture and shelter, and consumers demand this is the case..
We the undersigned demand that ACCC are empowered to enforce a definition of labeling.
During Intensive Farming the animals are subjected to inhumane conditions resulting in unacceptably high death rates and suffering. They suffer extreme cruelty and barbarism prior to slaughter. -
Your petitioners call upon the members of the Senate to immediately, and without delay, enfoce lear labelling to inform customers of products that are given antibotics and treated in a less humane manner than absolute fre range condition.

Dicke Here is the link to ours to use as a guide and for ideas. This is the one you can lodge to the Greens Please. All of it. Both Rounds. Just when you have time.

Lets get these surveys out first.
You ideas on that are good
. Sorry you are disadvantaged by distance. Perhaps we can help you by funding the letter box drops.

Open to ideas and Instructions.

http://consciousevolution.com/onshu/view_signatures.php

Sorry Pale for being off track. Attempting to do 10 things at once here, hence my lack of concentration.

The Rudd/Obrien matter certainly needs addressing pronto!

Perhaps a "conflict of interest" may be perceived by involving the free range industry for pigs in our quest to halt the intensive farming of these animals?

However, one thing at a time eh?

What does PF now suggest?

In the very first post in this thread 3 days before the election I predicted the outcome.

Yes the thread was about something else, not intensive farming, not live animal exports, not insults hurled at one and other.
I have another prediction to make.
One day soon the forum owner will remind us all of forum rules about diverting threads.
One day soon even some who never obey those rules will have to understand rules are rules.
Yes it is apparent some are not in control of their thoughts and actions, some seem blind to rules of debate and good manners.
And it is also true the forum needs all who use it to support its rules respect its giving us a platform to be heard and seen.
Sometimes, no I am not a woman hater, it seems some females take advantage of the fact we men open doors and have good manners to act in total rudeness.
This in truth looks to be such a case, or maybe it is just lack of ability to understand rules are for every sex.
The forum needs us to remember we are all guests, we should share it not invade it all are welcome in a thread I started but what turn will the subject take next?
We in another post see a requirement for inside knowledge of what the lodge served for Christmas dinner it is quite obvious some know how to start a thread why steal one?

Belly
Funny As.
Can think of a few doors I would like to open for you pal but I might leave that one to PF and Dickie.

They might arrange to lock you behind the doors of a intensive piggery farm you self serving attention seeking moron.

*Put you in a cage.*

The only thing you can be assured of is your company will be of far higher intellergence than that of yourself.

Perhaps you might learn `if you listen` that these discussions are certainly NOT off post.

Its just the same as when you complained to GY that pale should not be posting on the Rudd China and trade thread.

You demanded to know what Live Exports had to do with China and Rudd-
How embarresing for ALP

I rest my case.

Blimey I only know AMIEU union leaders who are informed and very bright.

What on earth are YOU supposed to be in charge of?

The nut crackers union or something. Your doing unions more harm than good bely.

If you cant hold a debate raising issues of interest to you- Which from what I have seen so far is `yourself` do not attack others for discussing whats important to them.

Yes - Of course we already know your lack of interest on the subject of intensive pig farming.


You know I dont like to say anything that upsets people but belly your really a concern to us.

How many more union boses like you are there in the ALP.?

For that matter how many are there in all- Does anybody know?

If "you even know "that is?

For God sake what type of people do we have barging in on busy business owners trying to provide jobs for Australians economy.?

Surley there should be some sort of required standard and IQ for these union bosses.?

What type of ongoing training and briefs [if any] do they get?

A waiste of a whole post I am sure.

Kevin Rudd and the ALP lied to the Australian public on ABC TV.

Thats whats on `Saturday` Morning at the lodge.

I am aware of this post it is childlike and spiteful, it contains lies
The simple fact is no such request to delete or change a post in the China thread was ever made.
Again and again this group uses threats lies and intimidation to put its case.
I once asked the forum to consider the rude nature of the group posting as pale.
A few more than me have done so.
This post is offensive and brings our forum down.
I will not report it nore will I start another pale car park.
Remember what I say to every new union member
quote if I ever let you down remind me I am worthless end quote.
If ever I lie knowingly to prove a point then indeed I am worthless I have told the truth pale has yet again lied in this thread.
Most will say it is not worth the effort but truth is worth defending always.
One day pale must stop the lies , stop the slander, stop thread invasions, if not the forum will suffer and all who post here.
Watch and count pale, the contributors to your threads who are not from your group, some understanding of good manners is called for.
Many think pale has no understanding of issues , is not always responsible for what they say, maybe that is true.
The crawling to people and groups they try to use concerns me, the near sainthood they have given the left wing, very left wing meat workers union is a huge laugh from union haters.
Why would that union not want to kill all animals in this country, even if the meat can not be sold for the profit live can?
The group is not worth the trouble debating with but the forum is.
Standards must be kept.

Belly Said

Standards must be kept

pale replies.
standards Belly-
You dare speak of standards?!

The following are your words on Animal Cruelty!>

A huge grin this thread!

Are we to believe the nations future depends of free range eggs and such?
My turkey, well it was chooks in fact like most came via mass production as did the hams.

Now I am concerned about the beer! was the grain used treated fairly?
Tasted ok but you never know!
make a good course laughable.
Posted by Belly, Thursday, 27 December 2007 4:48:13 AM


Your lack of humanity and concern is a matter of record= Along with your stupidity as you continue to shoot yourself in the foot by rubbishing the informed statements of your 'own' unions whom we work with.

Now as you clearly have zero interest in Animal Welfare perhaps you could go look yourself in the mirrow some more.

Its Sunday at the Lodge tomorrow and some of us are busy.

Oh Your other stupid question>
"Why would that union not want to kill all animals in this country, even if the meat can not be sold for the profit live can?"

Answer. AS PF advised why dont you do a little research honey. You will find its common for Animal Welfare groups and AMIEU to work together and protest against the cruelty of the live Animal Trade Side by side.
Why not start with this one-.

Workers Online Print EditionTransport Workers Union state secretary Tony Sheldon is backing the motion, .... Meat Industry Employees Union (AMIEU) Federal secretary Tom Hannan. ...
workers.labor.net.au/197/print_index.html - 82k - Cached - Similar pages

Then Look Here and See if you know anybody. http://www.halakindmeats.com/

Of Course AMIEU are involved in killing Animals.

They just want the jobs for Australians and the Animals killed under some codes of practise.
Thats what we all want.
A bit of Common Decency.


I repeat your lack of concern towards animal welfare is a matter of record

Please NEVER refer to me as honey, love ,darling, or any such thing, we are not friends never will be.
How hard is it to understand free range is a minor part of this nations food intake?
How hard to scroll back up the thread and re read TarynWs post? the one I highlight again and again?
Then re read yours ,the one that got it wrong?
Or was it a lie, a known lie?
So little regard for truth.
For facts.
Honest opinion is absent.
On the single action of refusing to address a lie, refusal to say we got it wrong I find your group a fantasy group.
No regard for anything other than slander and heated insults lies and lost in a world of fantasy.
Tell us pale why not confront and explain the TarynW post? that Aboriginals raped their children pre white man?
Why not confront the post that said she never did?
If you do not nothing you say can EVER BE BELIEVED!
Rainer, one of those names is a proud one in my area, I have known a family for a very long time properly not related but murri with that name.
My nephew [I rared him] is wed to a member they have 3 kids And no man black or white doubts that name is a good one.
I do not wish to name drop or let others who do drop names have information but while the thread is dead we did try.
Worth noting good people are hoping Rudd has the answers lets us start a thread one day again and hope it is allowed to breath free of single issue groups with little interest in it.

I did it didn't I?
I mixed the thread with another one! got so of topic and of thread I may have earned life membership of pale!
My request remains please pale set me free!
My only wish is to see and answer to the lie told about Aboriginals raping their children and an answer why the further lie that said it was never said.
then I am free, free to never again post in pale threads or talk to them.
Strange I am aware it may well be time I left the forum, damage is being done to it by this endless confrontation.
And I play a part, so many just let it pass ignore pale my inability to do so is a weakness, or is it?
Is rudeness and maybe lies a tool for discussion?
Is it ok to slander anyone who disagrees?
are different opinions worthwhile?
I will consider my future here but pale must answer my questions about those posts or be condemned by them truth does matter.

Belly, free yourself and just let go.

OLO is quite an artificial environment and ‘rules’ are a bit hit and miss. You have to accept that other people will say whatever they want and you cannot control that.
If you are of a sensitive nature, this is not the place for you. Unfortunately the written word does not convey tone and many of us are guilty of allowing our own baggage to get in the way of how we interpret those words. Some of us are better than others at getting our thoughts across in writing, for some, emotion makes them jump to the keyboard and the words dont come out quite right, and others, hold back for fear of ridicule. Any of the above can lead to misconceptions.

You are pissed with pale, I get that, but its not worth the angst you are putting yourself through. Just more words, all lost in interpretation and feelings hurt by people we don’t really know and don’t bother to get to know. What does it matter?

Belly

Taryn is on holidays. I am sure she will respond on the appropiate thread.
For the record Taryn has done some amazing work with assisting Aboriginal People as well as Animal Welfare.

In fact she is a proud part aboriginal.

However - pale are not responsible for 'personal posts'.

It was yourself and Robert who "insisted" Taryn post under her own name.



Oh and Belly, pale pisses everybody off. Just ask the AWB. So your not alone ok.

That ought to make you feel a whole lot better in this friendly season.

You have made your thoughts on intensive pig farming and poultry very clear. So unless you have actually reconsidered I cant see the point of your posting .
I have read enough of your posts belly to know this much about you.

Your very sensitive and respond often without thinking. As we all do at times.

"If?" you clicked onto some of the information PF and others have supplied regarding the treatment of these poor Animals I believe you "would care."
I think you would be just as "shocked" and "outraged" as the rest of us.

You have shown compassion to dogs that while mistreated have a much better life than intensive pigs and poultry.

Somebody in the ALP has got to kick things off. PF needs all the help she can get and so do these poor creatures.
Think about whats going to happen to the free Range Farmers if we dont sort this labbeling out.

You said you stood for a fair go "for all".

You dont have to talk to pale. Talk To Dickie Nicky and PF.


PF - Getting back to the issue at hand

Would you have enough farmers and others to appear on "Insight" to debate the labelling issue surrounding free Range Farming?

We could invite the ACCC as well.

We are making enquires to get this isue on local Gold Coast TV.
Would you or anybody you know be prepaired to do the add as a Free Range Farmer.?

Dickie is there a local TV outlet there?

There sure is Pale.

Dickie

If you have time please enquire re costs. Also letter box.

Local TV adds here and news. Plenty of distrubtion compaines.

Whatever PF thinks best put together.

Will wait her comments.

Shall I just go ahead with the petition re Election promises?

Do you want to add to that rough draft for the Live Exports broken election promises petition?

We can do that officially however 'not' the intensive pig advertsing one.

We can only offer what we already have.
We cant be seen to be driving it.
Anybody understanding Animal Welfare politics will understand why.

Anyway its PF area. Best left in her control with perhaps your assistance and Nickys, AA, AL etc.



Now Gert Yabbs- Where are you.?

Sorry didnt reply earlier

Yabby said
We live in a changing and uncertain world right now.

Whatever the outcome, we need all round win-win solutions,
something that much of the animal libber and veggie movement
has overlooked to a large extent.
Posted by Yabby, Monday, 17 December 2007 8:10:49 PM

pale replies.

Well Yabby people dont normally stray outside their own areas.

We are probably the only black sheep.

Their job is to highlight cruelty to put pressure on the Government to change.

South Australia highlighted the piggery partly owned by Amada Vanestone for eg.

Yes All Round Win Wins is what is required.

Under the circumstances I feel slaughtering here in Halal and sending whole carcuss to Malyasia for JAKIM accreditation is best given our labour shortage.

There is also huge interest in Halal veggie farms and the farmers need those contacts to export.

Unless they are to continue to be ripped by the midleman.

You and I both know the real answer lies within the Industry and what goes on with farmers, market trade.

Yabby- You tell me whats wrong with inviting the farmers to invite ME and Malaysian buyers to visit their farms?

If thats what the buyers have requested why wont farmers Federations spread the request?

Or Austrade or MLA.Come on Yabby be fair.
I know why but do you?

It stinks!!

Last post on the subject yes the very last one.
If you want to see me head down scratching in the dirt with one foot do not wait.
Is it not clear a VERY LARGE number who post here are peed off with pale?
The thread is insulted! it now is a personal message board!
And wait for it Taryn is on holidays?
And pale is not responsible for personal postings?
Who posts as pale today?
Has Taryn ever?
How hard is it to scroll up the thread find pales rebuttal of the claim Taryn was wrong?
Why not debate that post?
As I am not going any place let me say this.
I fear for our forum!
Threads have become personal message boards.
Those of us who disagree, who understand farmers must market the best way they can, but understand needless cruelty is wrong are targeted.
PALE after all is but one view one minority view in posts over the last few years they claim the lunatic fringe group ground.
It is clear some of us would like to debate all sides of the issue but to start such a thread would bring it to an end, after all if a thread about the impacts of the federal election can be raped this way what will change?
Notice Lady's please count how many from other than your side contribute to your threads.
Ask how many you have verbally thrashed in this forum over the last few years?
mean spirited and marginal out of touch and yes refusing to say I was wrong that is what pale looks like to me.
No arm over my should in three months please lets us agree we have no regard for one another and leave it at that.
If David is CEO he is not doing much of a sales job.

Belly, we just love a hypocrite.

“Threads have become personal message boards.”

Ahh, aren’t you just as guilty of posting off topic here? Come on now, don’t go making me defend pale! There would be no one left to argue with :)
It is possible to just ignore the posters you don’t like, or at least stop feeding them.

“I fear for our forum!”

Well Belly, if that’s all you’ve got to worry about then you’re doing OK.

Oh BTW, I am not ignoring anyone, just pre occupied at the moment.