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The Forum > General Discussion > Is honesty a Christian Value?

Is honesty a Christian Value?

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Dear David Boaz
Intercessionary prayers aren't to be confused with Christ as our one Mediator of Redemption. No heresy at all here.
Here's only a few of many Scriptures to show why:
Is it reasonable to invoke the Saints to aid us?

The most common Protestant objection to the intercession of the Saints is that it diminishes the intercessory role of Christ who is the "one mediator between God and men" (1 Tim. 2, 5). Understood properly, Christ is the one mediator of redemption, for there is no other name under heaven by which humanity is saved. Nevertheless, Sacred Scripture itself attests that Christ is not the sole mediator of prayer. The Holy Spirit "intercedes with sighs too deep for words" (Rom. 8, 26). Moses interceded for the people of Israel, asking God’s mercy and grace, for the sake of the dead Patriarchs who were righteous .
St. Paul continuously recommended himself to the prayers of his brethren (Rom. 15, 30; Heb. 13, 18); St. James:the prayer of "the righteous man has great power" (St. Jas. 5, 16); and Simon Magnus sought the intercession of St. Peter to save him from the wrath of God (Acts 8, 24).

At the Transfiguration - Mount Tabor, Moses and Elijah appeared talking with Christ (St. Matt. 17, 3). This would have been impossible if they had been "dead" according to the Protestant understanding of Psalm 115[113]. Relating to the Pharisees( parable of the Lost Sheep), Christ stated "there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents" In His discourse to the Sadducees, Christ declared that the just dead are "equal to angels" (St. Luke 20, 36) for God "is God not of the dead, but of the living; for to him all of them are alive" (St. Luke 20, 38). Hence, it follows that both angels and humans in heaven are aware of what is transpiring on earth. If to emphasize the power of the dead to intercede for loved ones on earth, Christ proceeded to relate to the Pharisees the story of Lazarus and Dives.
Posted by Webby, Saturday, 20 October 2007 3:45:28 PM
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Oh Philo... He based his intent on an all the way with a USA policy...

"...some intelligence assessments may have been changed unconsciously to reflect government policy concerns."

The ONA and Defence intelligence were sceptical about Iraq's threat but suddenly the tone changed in the September 13 assessment. Why?

And your weak kneed go at Rudd for having a few drinks and going to an OOps strip club ... Has Johnnie ever been to one? If that is your soul reason for voting against Rudd... Wow!

No I prefer to vote on the issues that effect this nation, Work Choices and the fact the fairness test was only brought in when Johnnie Howard couldn't get away without one. #1 years in the public life, a lawyer to boot and he didn't think protecting workers was necessary?

Core and non-core promise lies?

The lie about interest rates? see above chart... OOps!

Did the PM announce prior to an election sweeping reforms to the Politicians Superannuation payments and then after the election reverse the decision? Is this dishonest?

Has John Howard spent up to $1,000,000 a day on Government advertising? Is this dishonest against Jesus' teachings? What about the poor and the underprivilidged... $1,000,000 a day could save a lot of carers from hardship!

And the climate change sceptic... has changed his spots virtually overnight...

And what about the AWB enquiry farce... this Govt whilst our troups were in harms way allowed an Aussie company to give backhanders to this evil regime... What a joke! Is this OK by Christian values?

Smile Philo... I am...lmao
Posted by Opinionated2, Saturday, 20 October 2007 5:13:28 PM
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Hello people. Now let me get this right! Do you all really believe in all what you see and hear? " IS HONESTY A CHRISTAIN VALUE" Well the answer is no. Some of the worst people imaginable were hard core christians. See the pros and con's that are debating about is the exacted reason why it should be all banned!
Human nature has only one goal and Iam afraid mother nature has all living things in its control. Even this the so called good book cant stop whats inside us, and that's a fact.
Quote! God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good. Well it looks like he hasnt been around lately.
Posted by evolution, Saturday, 20 October 2007 8:36:53 PM
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evolution,
I suggest you read the rest of Genesis as it is evident you haven't.

Opinionated2,
I included the last snippet to disclose your political allegiance. It obviously worked!

Now we know your political bias. Let me tell you I do not give my "1" vote for John Howard or the Liberal Party and never will. I just believe in being honest about ones bias.
Posted by Philo, Sunday, 21 October 2007 6:46:42 AM
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Webby... have a close look at those examples of intercessory prayer :)
they were by living people.
Then.. any contact with departed spirits is forbidden......

OPIONATED... I totally reject your attempt to lock me in a straight jacket.. you may as well have asked "How me where Jesus said "I am not a homosexual"... He didn't... but was he ?
You also may as well have said "Show me where Jesus said "I am God""
he didn't....
There is much he did 'not' say, directly, but if you REALLY read carefully say the Gospel of John.....you will see often in one sentence the interchangable nature of Jesus method of speaking, which clearly means he was both Divine and Human.
Who we worship..is "God" in all His fullness. Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Have a look at Mark 8:27 Did Jesus say "I AM THE MESSIAH" ? or.... DID he use a differnt method. His works over 3 yrs tesssstified to his true nature..and he just ASKED "But who do YOU say that I am"?
and it finally tweaked with Peter "You are ...the Christ"....

It goes on "From that time Jesus BEGAN to teach them that 'the Christ' must... die, suffer, rise" etc...

I wonder if you actually see that? and why your question is really just a silly and inappropriate fishing expedition?

Sorry mate :) but it is.
Posted by BOAZ_David, Sunday, 21 October 2007 9:23:25 AM
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David you do get rather silly in your doctrine driven way... It's cute but not all that intellectual...

So an all knowing Jesus who knows what has been, what is and what will come didn't say something.... and so Christians decide well I'll make up the Trinity...

You are a kangaroo in the headlights of a shooter David and you just don't realise that if you actually thought outside the square you can find the truth... You're like a student who has done the studies but lacks the confidence to do the test.

David, the Christ and the Messiah were never said to be God... That again is you and your doctrinal thinking. Matthew 27:46 "My God, my God, why have your forsaken me?" Jesus referred to himself as the Son of man.

The trinity defies logic, it defies intellectual thought it defies Jesus' teachings... Man made it up! But you Christians believe it as though Jesus said it.... He asked who do you think I am to see what their understanding was - he was the Christ. Christ in Greek means the annointed in Hebrew again the annointed- annointed by who? himself?

David... please for your own sake... broaden your thinking... the answers are out there but doctrines limit thinking not enhance it. A doctrine is a decision to believe something... and there is much much more available to those who "Listen if they have ears". Open your mind and feel!

Good luck on your journey!

But it points to one thing regarding this topic... Honesty is not a Christian value as Christians will defend doctrinal views rather than say "I don't know" but I will certainly consider it
Posted by Opinionated2, Sunday, 21 October 2007 3:01:20 PM
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