Is honesty a Christian value?

No.

If Iraq's WMD's were secreted in Syria, I assume that the US and its allies would be making menacing noises at Syria, instead of at Iran. If not, then the conclusion can be drawn quite easily that either the author pointed to was wrong, OR the war was always about something other than WMD's (eg oil OR Bushy jnr's ego).

CJ, I hadnt made the correlation between BD's absolute interpretation of the Koran and the wavering interpretation of the bible before. Thanks for that! What is good for the goose is obviously not good for the gander. BD is usually quick to point out the differences between the New and Old testaments, which I notice he didnt bother with this time. Is this because they are one and the same god?! Maybe god has multiple personality disorder... hence the trinity.

Oh runner and Boaz!

I am quoting God's alleged writings about his own character from his own words the INERRANT BIBLE. When God allegedly commanded (your words) "the slaughter of some..." were there women, children, babies, unborn babies, old people slaughtered also? Is it dishonest for you to say I am questioning God's character?

God allegedly wrote this stuff... It is he, who by his own hand, (if you believe he wrote the Bible), through his alleged writings, brought his character into question - not me!

Should I quote John 3:16 and forget the rest? You are judging me (judge ye not lest ye be judged) for quoting passages from your INERRANT BIBLE! Runner I think you should remove the log in your eye before you remove the speck in mine! I don't question Gods right to be God I question your knowledge about Christianity and moral teachings!

CJ Morgan - Funny about Suddam not using his WMD's when under invasion... Boazy this is a very simple fact that a person who holds your views must address! So under attack Suddam chose not to use his WMD's... wow... maybe they were just palace ornaments! Ha!

David Boaz ... So you have sold your son into slavery at the company that employs him ... and you are a slave at the Commonwealth Bank... I know they need security for loans but I didn't realise they took you as that security... Ha! That is the silliest argument I have heard in ages. "Talk about the blind leading the blind". Exodus 21 didn't mention any of that interpretation David...OOps!

1. You guys have argued that by quoting Gods word I am attacking God's character! Shameful!

2. You have twisted the INERRANT Bible to suit your own arguments! Shameful!

3. And you ignore so many of Jesus teachings because you want to vote for Howard. I love flexible Christian morality... Ha!

Luke 12:47-48

Runner will you or Boaz contact John Howard so that he can add the right to beat staff under his WORK CHOICES legislation... It appears to be acceptable to Jesus!

"Is honesty a Christian value?"

Certainly not!

Just ask the Exclusive Brethren and their robotic cult followers!

It all seems to be getting a little heated in this particular kitchen, quite possibly because the opening proposition demanded that we equate a politician with Christianity, and Christianity with honesty, which is, it must be said, a fairly well-loaded question.

Fortunately, it did get a solid response from runner, who explains the Christian's relationship with the truth as follows:

>>The bible declares every man a liar except Christ Jesus our Lord.<<

That says it all, really. They are just the same as anyone else.

So am I being unfair, runner, if I determine from this response that your answer to Opinionated2's question, "Is honesty a Christian Value", is, quite simply, "No"?

I know you already explained this, Ginx, but it somehow sounds so much more convincing, coming from a Christian.

Although, when I think about it, why would I be more convinced by a self-confesed liar?

Too confusing. On balance, I prefer it when they are devious and underhand in their mendacity, rather than when they trumpet it from the rooftops.

I pointed out in my post above how holding a belief in events described in the bible requires a suspension of disbelief (just like in Harry Potter books), now I intend to show just where lying rates in the Top Ten.

1) I am the Lord thy god, who brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
2) Thou shalt have no other gods before Me.
3) Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain.
4) Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy.
5) Honor thy father and thy mother.
6) Thou shalt not murder.
7) Thou shalt not commit adultery.
8) Thou shalt not steal.
9) Thou shalt not bear false witness against they neighbor.
10) Thou shalt not covet anything that belongs to thy neighbor.

And the winner is: Numero uno is where God proclaims his supremacy.
Number two on the list (as if to drive a point home) rules out any other gods before him. Followed by an admonishment to be very careful when using his name. Ego anyone?

Lying comes in at number nine. Clearly not very important compared to remembering how important god is.

Respect mum and dad (which is the first bit of common sense to appear in the big ten) but sadly doesn’t include respecting one’s neighbours. I wonder how many wars could’ve been averted if god had been more into respect for others.

Anyway, some more common sense; don’t murder anyone. Solid advice that; although it makes me wonder why so many good, good, good Christians are pro-capital punishment.

Then this is followed by adultery by which placement must mean that it is more heinous than stealing! Go figure.

Number ten almost seems like an afterthought: don’t be jealous. Which is sensible; envy doesn’t really make for a well balanced individual.

A shame that a simple “be kind to one another” couldn’t have it into the set. The world may have been a different place. Maybe replace the one about adultery with that instead.

:-)