Christians want a bigger say in the political processes. Christian teachings - Jesus believed in honesty.

Is the Howard Govt honest when

- The PM stated Iraq has Weapons of Mass Destruction when they didn't? Does Thou shalt not bear false witness apply?

- The PM justified invading Iraq to Parliament/people using evidence that was proved false used by the USA in the United Nations. Does Thou shalt not bear false witness apply?

- That as a result many thousands of innocent Iraqi's and soldiers have been killed. Does "Thou shalt not murder" apply to Iraqi's when this is an illegal invasion?

- Whilst our ADF personnel were in harms way did AWB pay kickbacks to Suddam Hussein's regime? Did our representative in the USA tell US Senator Norm Coleman that no kickbacks were occuring? Did Alexander Downer write on a document that he wanted to know about the whaet price calculations and then deny knowing about them? Is this dishonest?

- Did the PM announce prior to an election sweeping reforms to the Politicians Superannuation payments and then after the election reverse the decision? Is this dishonest?

- Did the PM change many of the promises that he made by introducing core and non-core promises? Is this dishonest?

- Has John Howard spent up to $1,000,000 a day on Government advertising? Is this dishonest against Jesus' teachings?

- What would Jesus have thought about the tax cuts to the rich and minimal tax cuts to the lower and middle income earners?

- What would Jesus have thought about the fibs regarding interest rates? Treasurer Howard presided over bank bill rates up to 21.39% in April 1982 whereas Keating presided over bank bill rates up to 19.56% in December 1985? Is the PM being dishonest?

- Would Jesus approve of a religious organisation paying for advertising advantageous to he PM's party? Shouldn't Christian money go to the poor?

Now I'm not saying Labor will be any more honest but when a track record of dishonesty is in front of you... What decision should a Christian take?

What would Jesus do?

This post has gone from a question of honesty to an attack using half truths about John Howard. The bible declares every man a liar except Christ Jesus our Lord. It is not possible to find one politician or person who is not corrupted to a degree. To what degree a person is corrupt is a matter of bias and opinion. Mr Howard, Mr Rudd, Mr Brown are all corruptible and dishonest to a degree. For me it is the policies that best protect the most vulnerable (the unborn and the old) that matter most. People who refuse to acknowledge the murder of the unborn usually have very little honesty in their answers. People conveniently ignore that Mr Rudd would have done the same thing as Mr Howard when it comes to IRAQ, Then again you need a bit of honesty to face up to that fact.

I don't know what logic determines that Rudd would have gone into Iraq just like Howard did. He wasn't even Opposition leader at that time for a start.

Howard (and Downer in particular) were making loud war-like noises long before the invasion, only then in was "we don't want regime change, we only want to disarm Saddam" and it was going to take "weeks, not months" to achieve.

Anyway, we're all doomed because a talking snake told a woman to eat some fruit from a magic tree. Can't argue with logic like that.

Wobbles. To-sha! Politician's are just a bunch of little school boys and girls that are just really out there too feather their own nests.
Don't have much time for pollies. Their greed blocks out their divine commonsense. This is just a little joke! Vote liberal! What a downer.

Wow Runner so you are quite happy to settle for lies being told to people... Hmmm A strange form of Christianity that one. Are we allowed to look for a more honest politician and if not why not?

So seeing you are honest what are the half truths that I listed?

John Howard said there were Weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq... Truth? Did he lie?

You stated "To what degree a person is corrupt is a matter of bias and opinion" Really so proved wrong doesn't count, so proved a fib doesn't count... Hmm your Christianity (if that is what your espousing) seems to be very flexible on moral issues.

You also stated "For me it is the policies that best protect the most vulnerable (the unborn and the old) that matter most." Well you had better check your Bible for references on this stuff!

Bibles out everyone - Please Read Isaiah 14:21, Hosea 9:11-16, Ezekiel 9:5-7, Exodus 12:29-30, Jeremiah 51:20-26, Leviticus 26:21-22, Isaiah 13:15-18 .... What was God thinking? Surely this stuff can't be right?

But there's more Acts 5:1-11, 1 Samuel 15:2-3, Joshua 19:47

Funny how Christians never read these bits... Did God look after the vulnerable in these verses? Hmmm?

Oh and Exodus 21 is always a gem... What? You can sell your kids into slavery?

I'm not telling half truths... what does your Bible say about Christian values in the above passages? If you guys believe all this stuff what does it say about your ability to assess even the simplest moral issues.

So why not start with the simple stuff... demand honesty from our Politicians and vote out people known to be untruthful. You have to start conquering sin somewhere... Good luck with that!

Honesty is both a value for Christians and also for non-Christians of goodwill. Pre -Christian philospohers had much to say about honesty.

As for which political party is more honest than another that all depends upon its members and if they wish to place honesty as a virtue in all they think, say and do.

I have never voted for the Libs or the Nats and pray God never will however I stopped voting ALP a few elections ago as they are not really a 'labor' party anymore.
We as individual human beings and also as human beings in community or trying to gain, retain and improve community solidarity, need to place moral values and virtues such as honesty ABOVE the tribal loyalties of any political party. We need to put Christ Jesus number 1 and the rest will follow.

I think it best for people to vote for pro life candidates in thier electorates, even if this hurts their own sense of tribal loyalty to any political party. Christ who is God comes first remember.
The Liberal Party allows abortion which is the killing of 100,000 Aussie unborn babies annually through the Medicare levy. When a few 'Christians' usually Protestant , sometimes Catholics ( but not many) tell lies or are deluded in thier thinking that the Liberal Party is closer to God's preference than the ALP I think that absurd.
BOTH political parties are supporters of en masse abortion of our Aussie unborn children.
So it stands to reason that if God comes first in our thinking, only does through daily prayer to Him who is Lord, that we can only vote for pro life candidates of the above parties or of others such as Fred Nile's CDP.
Ideally, in the future, we will have committed pro life Catholics and non-Catholics of good will ( ie pro life of course) joining the politicla party of thier choice or being independents to promote pro life and pro trade union family friendly policies.