I'm not sure that I buy into blaming the "Left" for
this move in Victoria. The new Premier saying that
the tradition does not reflect a changing state and
that there should be a separation between Church and
State in a secular society.

Blaming the "Left?"

It needs to be pointed out that this is a decision that
will be decided by Parliament itself. The Premier is only
one Member of Parliament. This decision will need to be
part of a broader cross-party discussion/debate, and voted
on by all parties.

Luke Beck, constitutional expert at Monash University points
out that the Lord's Prayer itself has been scrapped before.
That this debate is as old as Federation itself.

According to Beck, in the mid 1800s several of Australia's
colonial governments stopped reciting prayers at the
beginning of each sitting embracing the separation of
Church and State.

"There was this idea that people should be free to do their
religious stuff, but it should not be forced upon them."

This shifted in the late 1890s as the six colonial
governments began planning Federation. By June 1901 both the
House of Representatives and the Senate included a daily
prayer.

For more than 100 years MPs have started each parliamentary
sitting day with the Lord's Prayer.

Tim Costello, a Baptist Minister and social justice advocate
says:

"It is appropriate to ask whether parliament needs to be more
inclusive. But I also think that secular people are a little
naive. They would be surprised to know that Muslims, Jews, and
Hindus are not offended by the Lord's Prayer. What offends them
is a secular Australia that does not have a belief in
transcendance, a belief in a higher power, something beyond us."

In the United States, one of the most diverse societies,
acknowledging God is regularly done. Be it in political
speeches, in courts, taking oaths of office. In Presidential
campaigns, and so on. It's something that is simply taken for
granted.

I'm sure that in Victoria - they will sort it out in parliament.
In a cross-party decision.

Just a bit of light-relief:

Seen in a store in Los Angeles:

"In God We Trust.
Everyone Else Pays Cash!"

So last night I dug into things a little...

Victorian Premier Allan to Cancel the Lord’s Prayer
http://www.acl.org.au/campaigns/cm-vic-prayerparliament-2401/

>>Make no mistake, these aren’t just about cancelling our national day or removing a prayer. It is an act of eliminating our history and Judeo-Christian heritage, including God, from our country and from one of the most important institutions in our society.
Read More

The Lord’s Prayer has a legitimate place in Parliament and has been part of parliamentary process since 1918. It is symbolic of the Christian ethos underpinning Western civilisation that has fostered free and prosperous societies, including our liberal democracy.

Responding to Premier Allan’s statement, Victorian State Director Jasmine Yuen said, “The Lord’s Prayer is more than merely a Christian prayer, it is an important tradition for all Australians. It is a reminder of the blessing we enjoy through our democratic system which is firmly rooted in our Christian heritage and Westminster system. As our community becomes more multicultural, the Lord’s Prayer grows in importance as it serves to unite us as Australian regardless of faith and ethnicity.” <<

Now, I just want to say that I'm starting to get fed up with 'Liberal Democracy' thing, and for pretty good and valid reasons too.

If you want to understand why then watch these:

Liberal Hegemony and War - Prof Glenn Diesen at FOR
http://youtu.be/vNJ6Fn-nGj4

WHEN IS THE CURRENT FINANCIAL SYSTEM GOING TO COLLAPSE? PROF. MICHAEL HUDSON/ LIVE
http://www.youtube.com/live/MC3VGdwwWPM

Watch the first one and you'll find out that things aren't at all what they are made out to be.
Watch the second one, and you'll find out the 'liberal west' has no qualms against sacrificing entire nations to maintain the rule and explotation of the elite, who are hell-bent on conquest of the entire planet in the name of 'liberal hegemony' and that the United States, will make war upon any nation just over the colour of the ink and paper called 'money' that people pay for things with.

Things are not as good as they are stacked up to be.
The West is ANYTHING BUT Christian.

"Just a thought. What countries that haven't been Christian-based would you like to live in?"
- It's probably for that exact reason I did not immediately jump on the 'Lets get rid of it' bandwagon.

I think if I was to support getting rid of it, I'd be more inclined to replace it with something,
i.e. something non religious but still inspires good ethical thinking and decision making, respect and kindness towards others etc.
Something wholesome...

I feel as though getting rid of it altogether might make us a rudderless ship.

Thy Kingdom Come
http://www.ligonier.org/learn/articles/thy-kingdom-come

Tell me, in saying this prayer, are people signing up for Messianic beliefs?
I don't want to wage war on the whole world for the sake of armageddon and Jesus second coming.
I don't want no part of conquering the world to further religious beliefs.

I just want a world of respect decency and dignity, of mutual benefit between nations not one ruling over all i.e. 'exploitation' and 'wars for power and profit' for its own financial interests.

Tikkun Olam: Repairing the World
http://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/tikkun-olam-repairing-the-world/

Saying "The Lord's Prayer" in parliament didn't make us a better country or make it a better parliament.

So not saying it wouldn't make a worse country or make it a worse parliament.

Therefore I don't really care.

Its very true that we are a society based on Christian values and that we will become, or indeed are becoming, a worse less moral country as we stray from those Christian values. But mothing the Scriptures won't remedy that.

If they were said with true conviction and a true desire to live by the words, that would be a different matter. But these days, its mere ceremony with little meaning other than a quaint holdover from a better time. It is no more important to the functioning of the parliament than the Serjeant-at-Arms pouncing around with his/her oversized staff.

If we want to remain a Christian nation, then espouse Christian values, sincerely and with conviction. Insincerely mouthing a choose verse from the ancient texts isn't going to change a single mind nor a single action.

The Lord's Prayer introduces a measure of humility, attempting to remind the politicians that they are not omnipotent.

This is good!

Also, these 2-3 minutes dedicated for the Lord's Prayer every seating morning, are 2-3 minutes during which the politicians are not legislating against us.

This is good too!