Hi Foxy

You had a good discussion going there - when it was on topic - about Parliament and spy rings.

People can talk about Australia's defence till the cows come home...

There's a huge curve to be learnt about defence spending and OLO's peculiarities have never been able to attack that curve...

"pissing in the wind" as Socrates said.

Signing off.

Mavs

Hi ttbn,

'Greg Sheridan on whether or not the West is willing to fight for its existence' We still think that America will 'take care of it'; but, as Sheridan asks, 'What if America's 54 allies needed help at the same time'?"

I posed this argument a long time ago, but everyone ignored me.
If we need the United States help defending our borders from invasion, that will be because the US is already at war with China.
America wouldn't be able to do much to help us, and probably wouldn't be able to defend us even if they weren't at war already.

Mind you if the US and China are at war, then Chinas not likely to waste the men and resources invading US anyway either.

What really interests me is this statement 'whether or not the West is willing to fight for its existence'.
Can you define for me just EXACTLY what that means?

Does it mean A/

That Australians are unwilling to fight to defend their own country
(From a foreign invasion on our sovereign soil)

Or does it mean B/

That Australians are unwilling to fight for the Western US based Unipolar order - and fight a war against the Wests rivals Russia, China, Iran - on their soil?

You should be very specific because it's an extremely important question, just exactly what is implied here?

If you are saying we are undemocratic and unAustralian because Aussies don't want to put on fatigues and go fight for Ukraine killing Russians, or worse in Israel bombing Palestinian kids...

Does joining the Australian Defence Forces mean 'Defending Australia'; or does joining the Australian Defence Forces mean joining the 'Collective belligerent Wests Offensive Forces' including 'invading' and 'attacking' other countries?

I listened to the PM welcoming the PM of Singapore to
Melbourne for the ASEAN - Australia Special Summit.
Both leaders agreed on the importance of working
closely with partners in SE Asia to ensure the region
remains stable, peaceful, and prosperous.

I also listened to Federal Liberal Senator, Keith
Wolahan last night on "Q and A," commenting on the
Spy-Politician and what should be done. The Senator
currently feels that the politician at present should
not be named. That ASIO has its reasons, and that we
should allow ASIO to handle the matter. They know what
they're doing and why.

I guess we have to accept that.

I anyone is interested in getting another perspective -
Googling Senator James Paterson's opinion on the web on the
issue of our security is worthwhile.

Thank You Maverick for contributing to this discussion.

Hi AC,

I agree that relying so much on the US for our defence
is risky. Especially, if Trump becomes President. Trump
is a self-proclaimed isolationist. Our security will be
at risk. We have to develop other alliances.

AC

People do ignore things that frighten them: hands over ears, eyes closed, and it will all go away. But it won't.

Is the Western willing to fight for its existence means, it's civilisation, its freedoms, democracy, culture - the lot. I think it's straightforward. There's the West and the rest. You can nitpick about what's not perfect in the West - America is this, America is that; but it's still better than the rest, which people will find out only when they lose it, which is on the cards right now, thanks to our sh-t house politicians, and our ignorant, complacent citizenry.

War and fighting isn't just about shooting. We are already at war with China, and we are losing.