ASIO made the announcement that a Member of our Parliament
had been a spy for a foreign regime. Yet the MP was not named
and this has caused a great deal of controversy.

Should the MP be named and shamed?

An why does ASIO refuse to name the MP?

“The MP” should be in custody awaiting trial for treason. The ridiculous little man, Burgess, should be sacked for suggesting that the traitor not be named and dealt with. Australians should finally realise that there is a class of people, including politicians, that is exempt from the law.

A Chinaman has been jailed in the last few days for “foreign influence”, but a politician is OK because he is ‘no longer a threat.

Both Albanese and Dutton should also be removed for acquiescing to the appalling advice from Burgess. Any relation to Guy Burgess?

ASIO Boss Mike Burgess apparently wrote to MPs
some time ago warning them about spies within
the government. He received no reactions. So
now he's made statements to attract attention
and warn MPs about what's going on within their
ranks, and to be careful.

His actions have now worked. His comments have attracted
attention - which appears to be what his aim was.

I personally feel that the MP should be named
And the matter investigated

Hi Foxy,

I agree with your speculation that the ASIO boss had passed on the information some time ago and was frustrated that nothing had happened, but note that his pubic disclosure does not seem to have got the wheels turning.

Treason is a crime and there should be no tolerance or exemptions. The inaction is extraordinary but nothing surprising for cult leader Albo.

Pre 2018. It has to be Abbott.

Hi Fester,

A full investigation needs to be followed up by the
government. No excuses. Otherwise innocent people
could be smeared. Also other MPs need to know who
they're dealing with and be vigilant and careful
for our country's security.

Hi Riely,

A former Labor MP Ernest Wong, who was found by
ICAC to have engaged in corrupt conduct over
Chinese donations has flatly denied that he is
the MP at the centre of the ASIO claim.

I guess there's going to be quite a few denials.
That's why ASIO should make the name known.

I imagine that there will be cries of "racism" if this traitor is not named and prosecuted. This week a Chinaman was jailed on a charge of "foreign influence", so why should this traitor get away with it, they might ask. Of course,the traitor being shielded by ASIO and the political class might be another Chinaman.

The speculation is not going away; it will get worse and louder if the dolts in Canberra don't do the right thing and show that they have some concern about foreign countries spying, and locals helping them out.

Could it be that other politicians, past and present, have been at it, and it's getting a bit close to the bone?

Just asking.

Hi Foxy,

As with any suspected crime, due process needs to be followed. Material needs to be forwarded to the prosecutors to determine if there is a case to answer. I've never thought of treason as a trivial misdemeanor.

-Someone who left Parliament in 2018, as long as it was before JUNE 2018, is possible.

See "In June 2018, the Australian Parliament passed legislation, which criminalises foreign interference and strengthens our ability to successfully prosecute acts of espionage National Security Legislation Amendment (Espionage and Foreign Interference) Act 2018."

Source: http://www.education.gov.au/guidelines-counter-foreign-interference-australian-university-sector/templates-and-tools/australian-government-legislation-and-codes#toc-national-security-legislation-amendment-espionage-and-foreign-interference-act-2018

From what I can gather it appears that ASIO Boss
Mike Burgess wanted to be heard and draw attention
to the fact of what really goes on amongst some
MPs . He is intent on warning people as to whom
to trust and to be careful with the type of
information they divulge to others. Apparently he
wrote to MPs in the past and was ignored. This time
he got their attention. He achieved what he set out
to do.

MPs should take heed and be warned about who they can
trust.

I agree that naming the person should now be done -
and our laws should come into play, to discourage
this sort of behaviour from ever happening again.

I agree with Fester, this behaviour cannot be taken
lightly.

Hi Maverick,

Welcome back to posting.

Thank you for the link.

Thanks Foxy

I just can't get this sing along number out of my head http://youtu.be/ZyhrYis509A?si=nuPpf4oVY_O2JUYG

Cheers Mavs

Hi Maverick (Mavs),

I was never a Barbie girl.

But talking about songs that stay with you.

I'll be going for an Echo and a six minute walk
test shortly. It's my six month heart check-up.
And the song that always sticks in my mind during
this time and makes the time go faster is:

"That's the way, aha, aha
I like it, aha, aha..."

Did anyone watch 60 Minutes last night?

ASIO Boss Mike Burgess was interviewed on the
program last night.

I found it rather disturbing to hear that there
is a spy network in our country. It wasn't clear what
the government is doing about it.

Hi Foxy

Politicians rarely touch spy networks of their fellow politicians because it is often involves suspect political donations, straight bribes or free study tours. Both sides of politics enjoy...

Burgess contacted all Federal Politicians about the spy network activity. But they ignored him. So he had to go public.

This is the only reason it is major news now.

The ball is in Dreyfus "court" to do something about it - as Dreyfus has for years known which him/her the unnamed politician is.

Mavs

The government is supposed to be running this country, not someone who thinks that he is Ian Fleming's 'M'. Burgess should be made to reveal the identity of the traitor, or go to jail himself.

Hi Maverick (Mavs),

Thanks for the information.

If there's more than just one person involved - as you
point out - it's now up to the government to decide what
action needs to be taken.

Unless this ex-PM is identified and dealt with, we can only assume that the political class believes that it is OK for one of their own to commit treason. The Dutton Opposition is in on the cover-up, too. A little squeak, and "Oh, OK then".

Even you haven't thought that our politicians were crap before, surely this is enough to convince you!

ttbn

Risk a guess? Read my Sunday, 3 March 2024 3:21:12 PM message.

But there are defamation laws (that current and ex-politicians are "good" at) that even Burgess might not want to personally transgress.

It would take Dreyfus or someone else in Parliament - protected by Parliamentary Privilege - to out the name.

Cheers Mavs

I did not quite understand what the point was for Burgess
to tell us that an Australian politician had been
identified as a spy without naming the individual. I've
said that he should have been named. However, after
watching 60 Minutes last night, I not accept the fact
that Burgess is trying to encourage our politicians to
wake up and realize that there is a real threat to our
country.

To take things any further - it now is really up to the
government to do.

Sorry for the typo. I should have said that I did accept
the fact that Burgess is trying to encourage our politicians
wake up and realize that there is a real threat to our
country.

Maverick,

Who ever it is remains innocent until proven guilty; but there has never been a problem before saying someone has been charged with a crime without naming them. Courts do impose non-disclosure orders. In this case, the investigation has been done by ASIO, and Burgess has said the person WAS spying. He/she has been pronounced guilty by Burgess. That's unusual in itself. That doesn't happen with other crimes, where police investigate, then refer the matter to the DPP, who decides if the evidence is good enough to prosecute.

It seems that treason, a crime against the whole country and its people, is being treated as unimportant compared with all other crimes, including minor ones.

People like George Pell, SAS soldiers and others have been 'declared' guilty by members of our appalling political class before a trial, for heaven's sake!

But, when it comes to them, things are different, obviously.

Hi ttbn

You've got the issues in a nutshell.

But Dreyfus is distracted today protecting the system against whistle blowers - who yes, did break the law...It being a higher Albo Gov priority to protect good ol Aussie diggers who wasted locals in Afghanistan.

With that Western world warped righteousness, no wonder the Taliban breezed back into Kabul so easily.

Looks like Assange will have a lot to say about all this, once he returns, free (while monitored) to Australia.

Cheers Mavs

Foreign countries needn't worry.
Because Western nations have DEI
Diversity, Equality and Inclusion.
We'll destroy ourselves in no time.

China has been revealed as the country working with the Australian now ex-politician.

'James Bond' is stilling saying that politicians calling for the alleged traitor to be named risk embarrassing themselves. So what! What's one more embarrassment among many? The party that accepted this person into their ranks needs to be embarrassed.

Both the PM and the Leader of the Opposition have already embarrassed themselves for not insisting this public enemy be identified - or prosecuted and named if he is guilty.

Hi ttbn

Mainly Labor politicians were associated with Chinese or Chinese-Australian identities 5+ years back.

So no wonder Mike Burgess and Albo's front bench haven't been forthcoming, yet.

The next Question Time in the House of Reps is 19th March (I reckon) so naming might happen then.

Also the issue opens up a whole can of worms for some Former Coalition politicians, but Current Dutzis, less so.

Interesting times ahead but hopefully safe and
secure ones.

We (or those of us who are interested) are told by professional strategists that we are living in the most dangerous times since the time just before WW2. Our lack of defence is in a similar state of unreadiness. The big difference now is the lack of spirit and reality that Australians had those days. And we weren't divided by culture as we are today.

Also, as ‘Australian’ foreign editor, Greg Sheridan, points out:

“Australia, of course, is doing absolutely nothing (about defence) – absolutely zero. In fact, the Australian Government is doing less about defence than if it was doing nothing at all, because our defence capabilities are eroding, and we are not replacing them.” (Greg Sheridan in an interview at the National Civic Council's 2024 Democratic Conference” in answering a question on whether or not the West is willing to fight for its existence).

We still think that America will “take care of it”; but, as Sheridan asks, “What if America's 54 allies needed help at the same time”?

Too many Australians, including politicians, are living in a fools’ paradise, ignoring history and professional opinion never seen in mainstream media that prefers to scare us with climate change. We need a big scare about our inability to defend ourselves.

‘Hoping’ for security and safety is not going to be much help.

Australia has committed to a major upgrade of its defence
capabilities. The Australian Government's defence spending
for 2023-2024 we're told will reach A$53 billion up from
$49 billion in 2022-2023. The 2023 National Defence
Strategic Review sets a blueprint for defence planning and
resourcing to 2032-33 and beyond.

There's more at the following:

http://www.globalaustralia.gov.au/industries/defence#

Hi Foxy

You had a good discussion going there - when it was on topic - about Parliament and spy rings.

People can talk about Australia's defence till the cows come home...

There's a huge curve to be learnt about defence spending and OLO's peculiarities have never been able to attack that curve...

"pissing in the wind" as Socrates said.

Signing off.

Mavs

Hi ttbn,

'Greg Sheridan on whether or not the West is willing to fight for its existence' We still think that America will 'take care of it'; but, as Sheridan asks, 'What if America's 54 allies needed help at the same time'?"

I posed this argument a long time ago, but everyone ignored me.
If we need the United States help defending our borders from invasion, that will be because the US is already at war with China.
America wouldn't be able to do much to help us, and probably wouldn't be able to defend us even if they weren't at war already.

Mind you if the US and China are at war, then Chinas not likely to waste the men and resources invading US anyway either.

What really interests me is this statement 'whether or not the West is willing to fight for its existence'.
Can you define for me just EXACTLY what that means?

Does it mean A/

That Australians are unwilling to fight to defend their own country
(From a foreign invasion on our sovereign soil)

Or does it mean B/

That Australians are unwilling to fight for the Western US based Unipolar order - and fight a war against the Wests rivals Russia, China, Iran - on their soil?

You should be very specific because it's an extremely important question, just exactly what is implied here?

If you are saying we are undemocratic and unAustralian because Aussies don't want to put on fatigues and go fight for Ukraine killing Russians, or worse in Israel bombing Palestinian kids...

Does joining the Australian Defence Forces mean 'Defending Australia'; or does joining the Australian Defence Forces mean joining the 'Collective belligerent Wests Offensive Forces' including 'invading' and 'attacking' other countries?

I listened to the PM welcoming the PM of Singapore to
Melbourne for the ASEAN - Australia Special Summit.
Both leaders agreed on the importance of working
closely with partners in SE Asia to ensure the region
remains stable, peaceful, and prosperous.

I also listened to Federal Liberal Senator, Keith
Wolahan last night on "Q and A," commenting on the
Spy-Politician and what should be done. The Senator
currently feels that the politician at present should
not be named. That ASIO has its reasons, and that we
should allow ASIO to handle the matter. They know what
they're doing and why.

I guess we have to accept that.

I anyone is interested in getting another perspective -
Googling Senator James Paterson's opinion on the web on the
issue of our security is worthwhile.

Thank You Maverick for contributing to this discussion.

Hi AC,

I agree that relying so much on the US for our defence
is risky. Especially, if Trump becomes President. Trump
is a self-proclaimed isolationist. Our security will be
at risk. We have to develop other alliances.

AC

People do ignore things that frighten them: hands over ears, eyes closed, and it will all go away. But it won't.

Is the Western willing to fight for its existence means, it's civilisation, its freedoms, democracy, culture - the lot. I think it's straightforward. There's the West and the rest. You can nitpick about what's not perfect in the West - America is this, America is that; but it's still better than the rest, which people will find out only when they lose it, which is on the cards right now, thanks to our sh-t house politicians, and our ignorant, complacent citizenry.

War and fighting isn't just about shooting. We are already at war with China, and we are losing.

Every day I arrive at this forum with good intentions
and a great attitude. Then - @#$%^&* -
Well, we all know what happens next.

"Trump is a self-proclaimed isolationist"

Well that's just wrong. He didn't proclaim it and his policies aren't isolationist. But you'd need to understand his policies to recognise that.

He is however in favour of America First ie don't send America's kids to go and die for other people's wars. In a Trump administration, the US would only fight when there was a clear benefit to the US. That's why he was one of the few presidents to never start a war.

Its funny though. The usual dills will simultaneously assert Trump is a warmonger while bemoaning that he wants to avoid wars.

Oh BTW, the US Supreme Court just voted UNANIMOUSLY to overturn the fascistic attempt by Colorado to exclude Trump from the election. As the Bee sarcastically observed.." In a stunning unanimous decision that dealt a shocking blow to democracy, the United States Supreme Court affirmed that people can vote for the candidate they want."

The usual suspects are in the process of losing their sh!t.

Hi Foxy

Now that you've semi-returned to spy rings in Parliament:

ASIO has narrowed the field to China. Chinese money (not ideology) is the prime motivator (briber of politicians and others) in Chinese intelligence's (MSS [1]) operations in the modern age.

Alex, son of Malcolm Turnbull, says [2] he did not know whether he was the family member referred to by ASIO, but that his experience fit that account.

As Malcolm Turnbull is a former Liberal Party politician it is more likely his son was approached by an ex-politician, more likely Federal level? from the Liberal side of politics? who left politics before June 2018?

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ministry_of_State_Security_(China)

[2] See caption at http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2024/feb/29/joe-hockey-says-it-is-absurd-for-asio-not-to-name-former-politician-accused-of-treason

Lots to research rather than endless defence gazing.

Check out Wikipedia

Who on both sides of Federal Politics are on record as having associations with China - who gave China a leg up in ways.

In return Wikipedia details of these politicians obtaining money and/or jobs from China.

The above being the very definition of foreign influence from a country now considered hostile.

Paul Monk, head of China analysis for the Defence Intelligence Organisation in 1994-95 and author of “Thunder from the Silent Zone: Rethinking China”, believes that Australia was “deeply compromised” by Australian traitors during the Cold War, and they got off scot free, just as our latest, unrevealed traitor looks like doing in the grey war with China.

Counter-intelligence was “deeply penetrated by the Soviet Union” at the time, he writes. The Left didn't want to know, and started the “Reds under the beds” mantra against those people, including Robert Menzies and the Liberal Party who were concerned about Communism at the time.

For all we know the Chinese Reds are now in bed, not under it, in Australia, and the political class we are now lumbered with are not fit (or interested enough) to do anything about it. Unlike other Western countries, Australia doesn't want to face up to espionage from without and within.

So, asks Monk,” … what basis do we have now for confidence in the effectiveness of our counter-intelligence services against the Chinese?”

The answer is probably NONE, given the pathetic performance of the ASIO head and the government tail that he is wagging

There are 1.5 million ‘overseas Chinese’ living in Australia; hordes of Chinese students; Chinese tourists - all usable by the CCP to spy on us. And, our mindless little politicians think of them only in terms of dollars.

Talking about China.

Yesterday we received a telephone call at home from
a person claiming that they were concerned about our
"computer security." A red flag went up for me
immediately. I asked - "How did you get my number -
it's unlisted?" She repeated - her concern about my
"computer security." I said "That's strange, we don't have
a computer." And the woman hung-up - ringing back an hour
later and speaking in Chinese this time.

So Folks be careful - and whatever you do - don't fall
for any scam. Don't give out any information or take
phone-calls from people you don't know.

Talking about spies.

"You can't be a real spy and have everybody in the
world know who you are and what your drink is."

(Roger Moore).

Anyone remember the Labor Senator - Sam Dastyari who
was suspected of being "an agent of influence," back
in 2017? due to Chinese donations? He ended up
resigning from politics.

There's more at the following:

http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/dec/12/sam-dastyari-quits-labor-senator-china-connection#

My apologoes. Here's the link again:

http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/dec/12/sam-dastyari-quits-labor-senator-china-connections#

Thanks Foxy - some good research.

I have an inkling a more senior, more respected former politician, from either side of politics, may be the one ASIO and the AFP actually had in mind.

AUSTRALIAN FEDERAL POLICE CONCERNS

For those with a trendy, typical anti-ASIO bias.

Note that ASIO does much of the Analysis of Foreign Interference and the Threat Briefing to Parliament and others.

It is the AFP (working with Judges) that does the charging and arresting.

So here's part of a handy summary from the AFP: http://www.afp.gov.au/crimes/espionage-and-foreign-interference#about-this-crime-type

"About espionage and foreign interference..."

[NOTE THAT THE ANTI-BURGESS, ANTI-ASIO KNEE JERKERS CONVENIENTLY FORGET THAT THE AFP COULD ONLY ACT AGAINST THOSE WHO BROKE FOREIGN INTERFERENCE LAWS - ONCE THOSE LAWS WERE IN EFFECT - THAT IS SOMETIME AFTER JUNE 2018.

"...In June 2018, the Australian Government introduced the National Security Amendment (Espionage and Foreign Interference) Act 2018 (EFI Act) to combat the growing challenge of foreign interference.

The EFI Act amended existing offences in the Criminal Code Act 1995 (Cth) and introduced espionage-related offences. Some of the actions it criminalised include...

...The secretive nature of foreign interference makes it difficult to detect. Any harm to Australia may not be apparent for many years [AFTER 2018].

To be a crime under the Criminal Code Act, foreign interference must be linked to a foreign government or its proxy (also known as a foreign actor)."

more at http://www.afp.gov.au/crimes/espionage-and-foreign-interference#about-this-crime-type

Hi Maverick (Mavs),

Thanks for the info.

Good to know.

We've known from the outset that the person involved hadn't broken any laws. The Feds said that at the same time as announcing the existence of the so-called 'spy'.

We've also known from the outset that the event happened before the enactment of the new laws (2018) and can assume that the new laws were partially a reaction to the unearthing of the 'spy' ring.

Speculating about who the spy was or which group he/she belonged to is futile. We don't even know that the person was in the Federal Parliament. So the potential candidates number close to a thousand. I do however have a sneaking feeling that if the 'culprit' was a Liberal, the ALP wouldn't be so keen to keep the name secret.

But its all a storm in a teacup. Spying like this has been going on for millennia. (The Greeks sent spies to check on the invading Persian army in 480BC. They were found out and Xerxes gave them a tour of the camp since he wanted them to know just how large his army was).

I think this is just a don't-forget-us moment for ASIO/AFP. Not quite a beat up but not at all as surprising or scary as the Feds and media are making out. Take it as given that the Chinese are spying on us. Take it as given that we haven't unearthed all their operatives. But also take it as given that we are doing the exact same thing to them.

Hi mhaze

Surely nobody could be venturing Mike Burgess triggered this spies in Parliament affair

as a DISTRACTION from major ASIO/Police embarrassment over their adoption of an FBI like ENTRAPMENT STRATEGY in:

"ASIO BOSS DEFENDS UNDERCOVER POLICE OPERATION TARGETING BOY WITH AUTISM"

of March 4 2024 at http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2024/mar/04/asio-boss-defends-undercover-police-operation-targeting-boy-with-autism

"...the boy, known by the pseudonym Thomas Carrick, was granted a permanent stay on terror-related charges [in October 2023] after a magistrate found police “fed his fixation” with Islamic State during the operation and “doomed” his efforts at rehabilitation.

The Australian federal police deputy commissioner, Ian McCartney, told a parliamentary committee that a “decision was made jointly between the AFP, Asio and Victoria police that the threat – the real threat – had escalated to such a level that we had to take action”.

...The head of domestic intelligence agency Asio, Mike Burgess, said he would not “go into great details on this case” during an interview with Guardian Australia’s Australian Politics podcast.

McCartney authorised a major controlled operation into the boy, which eventually resulted in his arrest soon after his 14th birthday, in October 2021 – six months AFTER HIS PARENTS
had APPROACHED Victoria police for help dealing with his fixation.

But when asked to explain Asio’s role in signing off on the joint operation and whether it had done any soul-searching over the matter, Burgess said the AFP was conducting a review..."

I mean ASIO and the police wouldn't seek to entrap a 14 year old boy to put the frighteners into other Muslim youngsters while wracking up a "win" according to the low standards of ASIO's FBI colleagues
- when even the UK's MI5 think entrapment is illegal?!

Here's a legal discussion of the above "Thomas Carrick" Entrapment case http://www.sydneycriminallawyers.com.au/blog/is-entrapment-is-a-defence-to-criminal-charges-in-australia/

It is possible "Thomas Carrick" and his parents have grounds to sue ASIO and the police forces involved. This is because the actions of ASIO and the police forces involved further radicalised "Thomas Carrick".

Even "The covert operative behind both personas appeared to be concerned about the state of their conversations with" ["Thomas Carrick"]

This police further radicalisation of "Thomas Carrick" occurred even after his parents approached the police about their worries about their son.

Can that be summarized in twenty words.

y?

In a cesspool that is Canberra, one of the main aims of all the various bureaucracies is to maintain and increase their power and funding. This is why you see so many of the various agencies crowing about what they've done for the alleged benefit of the public and/or their political masters and why there's massive pressure to suppress any detrimental information.

If you are part of the clandestine brigade, you need to be constantly finding dangers in the shadows so that you can justify your existence and hopefully increase your prestige and funding.

This is the origin of the claims that the greatest danger to the nation is the domestic terrorist. Give us more money to protect you from a danger that only we can see.

But what to do when you claims about domestic terrorists aren't backed by any actual domestic terrorists. Well you create some. That he's an autistic kid who was a danger to no-one other than himself is by-the-by. 'We got our man - give us more money', T'was always thus.

_________________________________________________________________

The claimed traitorous pollie did his as yet unidentified deeds 6 years ago. Why are we only hearing about it now and why all the hullabaloo over something that is past and which clearly didn't do any actual harm to the country?

Anyone who understands how government backed bureaucracies work knows why the Feds were under such pressure to announce a 'win'.

Yes indeed mhaze. Why are we hearing about it just now?

Read the full transcript:

http://thesaturdaypaper.com.au/podcast/asio-worried-youre-helping-foreign-spies

Enjoy!

"Read the full transcript"

I wouldn't bother. Its just more of the same.

More unsupported assertions from the bureaucrats that we need to give them more money to protect us from things they say are there but can't tell us about.

Some people grow up realising there are no monsters hiding in the closet. Others grow up falling for whatever BS the authorities tell them to believe.

Yeh! Nah! I still subscribe to my Mike (Burgess) talking spies in Parliament is a distraction from Mike (and the gendarmes) using a legally dubious Entrap A Kid strategy.

See "ASIO BOSS DEFENDS UNDERCOVER POLICE OPERATION TARGETING BOY WITH AUTISM" of March 4 2024 at http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2024/mar/04/asio-boss-defends-undercover-police-operation-targeting-boy-with-autism

When I said MI5 think Entrapment is illegal I've done a bit of further research:

See http://www.lexisnexis.co.uk/legal/guidance/entrapment#:~:text=There%20is%20no%20defence%20of,prosecute%20him%20for%20doing%20so.

"There is no defence of entrapment in English law
but it is considered to be an abuse of the process of the court for state agents to lure a person into committing illegal acts and then seek to prosecute him for doing so.

The House of Lords said that, although entrapment is not a substantive defence in English law, where an accused can show entrapment, the court may stay the proceedings as an abuse of its process or exclude evidence.

Where the actions of the state threaten the rule of law, it would be unfair to try the defendant. As a matter of policy, when a defendant has been treated so unfairly, the integrity of the criminal justice system depends on him not being tried at all. State-created crime is unacceptable and improper, and to prosecute in such circumstances would be an affront to the public conscience."

In short, tall Mike is a very naughty boy!

I don't disagree with the possibility that the traitorous pollie story was released to offset the embarrassment over the autistic terrorist kid story. I'm just agnostic on it. Maybe true - maybe not.

I just don't think the Feds were all that bummed out about the terrorist kid revelations. Sure, in a moral world, heads would have rolled. But they doubled-down and the authorities let it slide. We know that in the US the various intelligence agencies are in bed with the legacy media and vis-a-versa. I'd be flabbergasted if that wasn't the case here also - we just don't know about it (yet).

So while they might have felt the need to change the narrative by telling the six year old pollie story, I don't see them under any real pressure. I think it was more a case of trying to prove relevance to a perpetually and increasingly fearful public.

This affair of ASIO suddenly advising of a spy from 6 years back - who shouldn't be named , is a worry: the worry being what else are they hiding? And, what power does ASIO have over elected politicians when they have readily agree that the spy uncovered should not be named.

In the US, there has been a suggestion that intelligence agencies might be taking over that country: that the US has become a 'defacto military security state'; that 'decades of destabilising and overthrowing foreign governments' has been 'turned inwards against their own people', with references to 'domestic terrorism, Catholics, Trumpers, protesters and Christian Nationalists'. Interfering in domestic politics, in other words.

Now, it would a big stretch to suggest any little old organisation in Australia has ever had, or will ever have the power of US intelligence; but how come the head of ASIO has been able to silence both the Prime Minister and the Leader of the Opposition?

This alleged spy is still with us, reported to still move in exalted circles, and still has influence. He/she should be dealt with, and to hell with what the head of ASIO says.

Anything is possible in the murky world of the public ‘service’, including ASIO.

Maurice Newman AC, ex-Chairman of the ABC, businessman and political commentator writes:

“Without the public realising it bureaucrats have successfully inverted the democratic system. They now set the policy agenda while left-leaning, elected representatives, from all sides, do their bidding”.

Burgess says, ‘Don't name the traitor’. Albanese says ‘OK’, as does Dutton.

Authority now “resides within the Marxist-Leninist bureaucracies”, but the announcements are left to politicians mainly for “theatre and used for election purposes”.

Authority now resides with the Marxist/Leninist
bureaucrats?

Really?

Why be so selective and narrow?

What about the Maoists, White supremacists, Colonials,
Monarchists, and lets not forget the traditionalists -
the One Nation crowd.

Power dynamics anyone?

Hi Foxy, ttbn and mhaze

Why has Mike Burgess decided on a highly political aspect of Security now?

Fact is 58yo Mike's standard 5 year stint as Director-General ASIO is ending on 16 September 2024 (or even 30 June 2024) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Burgess_(intelligence_chief)

So Mike can afford to be outspoken about some of our "esteemed" ex and even current politicians being in the pay of China.

Politicians are not immune from the shame and even legal sanctions that treason brings.

Mavs

Hi Maverick, (Mavs),

It will be interesting to see whether anything else
develops out of all this. Or whether it will just
die out.

Hi Foxy

There is half a chance naming will happen when Parliament returns on 18 March for a grandstanding opportunity and Parliamentary privilege/immunity from defamation applying.

The Dutzi Lads, Question Time, House of Reps, 19 March, might be a car crash on Dutton's road to fame.

Mavs

Hi Maverick (Mavs),

Very interesting times we live in. I think you're
right. Things will happen.

Hiya agin Foxy

There could be a dastidli carr crash of robbers.

nuf said

Hi Maverick (Mavs),

Again you're right.

But it all goes deeper.

After watching, "The Insiders," this morning. Plus other
news outlets during the week I get the impression that
politics in this country today is still prone to
stereotyping, and prejudice rather than just simply
disagreeing over policy outcomes.

Politicians seem increasingly blind to their commonalities
seeing each other only as two teams fighting for a trophy.

Why can't they get to view their political opponents with
reasoned and unbiased eyes. Why can't they try to see the
world through partisan eyes?

Viewing each other as enemies - can bring on the temptations
and the dastardly
effects you're referring to.

Thanks Foxy

But I think you made a typo when you wrote "Why can't they try to see the
world through partisan eyes?"

Answer is They do see the world through partisan eyes.

To criticise and publicly belittle their political opponents is the best way to achieve the First Law of Politics, which is, Win The Next Election.

Cheers Mavs

Hi Maverick (Mavs),

Yes, but trying to win the next election by the
outmoded methods of attack - isn't working very well
is it? Voters are leaving those parties in droves
looking for alternative choices. And if politics doesn't
change these parties with their outmoded tactics -
will be left out in the cold for decades.

Maverick

It doesn't matter who wins the next election. Because of our self-interested career politicians, 2.5 million or so public servants, victims, snouts in troughs, Australia will, sooner or later, end up like Peronist Argentina.

Australia has developed into one of the most prosperous
nations on Earth. It's politically safe and economically
stable and is a great destination for foreign investment.
Australia does not have a long history of military coups.
We don't have rampant corruption and incompetence and
we're not politically a volatile basket case.

Our institutional and cultural foundations, which include
parliamentary democracy, the impartial administration of
the rule of law, respect for the rights of the individual,
including private property rights all should explain why
Modern Australia is not Argentina and should be celebrated
as such.

We are lucky to be living in this country. As I've said
time and time again.

Argentina was a prosperous country before Albanese, oops, Peron took over. It's economy was larger than that of Canada and Australia. It was one of the world's wealthiest countries, in the top ten wealthiest per capita.

Peron put a stop to that, just as Albanese is now doing in Australia.

At least Argentina now has the chance of getting back to what it was, with the new president. Whereas Australia, under Albanese, is going in the direction that Argentina went after 1946.

Stupid people just don't get what trouble Australia really is in, blinded by dogmatic communistic dogma and lies, and their own stupity
as they are.

Fact is Argentina continues to be a victim of its unstable SPANISH colonial heritage.

While Australia continues to benefit from its stable British Westminster System heritage.

Even the US could have ended up like Argentina but for the US developing from the British Westminster System.

Though unfortunately the US brought in a Presidential aspect which is one reason for the appalling choice between a Demagogue [1] and a Codger today.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demagogue

Ignorance is the absence of knowledge.
Stupidity is the refusal to acquire or accept it.

Hi Maverick (Mavs),

Thanks for the link.

Look what's happening in the US.

Will Trump get elected?

I watched some of the Oscars. A documentary about
Ukraine won an Oscar. It was a very emotional
speech from the filmmaker. Will Ukraine still
be around under Trump?

Hi Foxy

1. Follow the money is one approach. According to current Sportsbet odds http://www.sportsbet.com.au/betting/politics/us-politics/us-presidential-election-2024-5479667 these convert to:

Trump having a 52% chance of winning

and

Biden only having a 38% chance

2. The Guardian reports http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/mar/11/trump-ukraine-war-viktor-orban

"Donald Trump “will not give a penny” to Ukraine if he is re-elected US president, the far-right Hungarian prime minister, Viktor Orbán, said after a controversial meeting [on 10 March 2024] with Trump in Florida...Therefore, the war will end, because it is obvious that Ukraine can not stand on its own feet.”

Orban is close to Trump and Putin.

..."Calling Trump “a man of peace”, Orbán said: “If the Americans don’t give money and weapons, along with the Europeans, the war is over. And if the Americans don’t give money, the Europeans alone can’t finance this war. And then the war is over.” (This would likely mean Ukraine losing the war to Russia.)"

ie. If Trump wins Ukraine will be forced to surrender on Russia's terms.

Hi Maverick (Mavs),

Even the Pope wants Ukraine to surrender.

It must be very disheartening for Ukrainians.

Probably best the West starts a mass evacuation (to the rest of Europe) of remaining Ukrainians - because the war is getting worse.

The trend is toward the destruction of all Ukraine because Russia is now tooled up as a near-war economy with more plentiful artillery shells, missiles and other munitions.

Also China and North Korea have solidified their alliances with Russia - towards a bipolar Second Cold (tending to Hot) World War.

You asked me Foxy.

So what are your views on what should be done about Ukraine?

Please call me Mavs ;)

Hi Mavs,

What do I think should be done with Ukraine?

I think Ukraine should receive help globally
from all the liberal democracies around the world.
As past history has shown - evil empires do
eventually collapse. Russia's turn will come.
Either from within or from the outside.

We can't not support the Ukrainian people in their
bid for freedom. We just can't.

Hi Foxy

Then I think Ukraine will remain an endless war, like Afghanistan (2001-2021), until no Ukrainian buildings are left standing. The tent option would be even worse than in Gaza.

The only hope might be Putin dies before Zelensky.

Unfortunately Putin is only 71. The CIA "stated they had no evidence to suggest Putin was unstable or in bad health."[1] He keeps fit with a "sambo" martial art [2] Putin is a "popular" leader to most Russians who are used to dictators. Putin also has thousands of bodyguards keeping him safe.

A post Putin Russian leader might end the war.

But Putin on the Biden (Duracell Bunny) scale may live 15 more years - of war.

Mavs

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Putin#Health

[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Putin#Sports

Hi Mavs,

Sometimes miracles do happen.

I guess it will take one to bring peace to Ukraine.

Very depressing situation.

What follows got no reaction elsewhere so this thread seems to be more relevant now.

The whole situation has changed as a result of the meeting held in
Moscow chaired by the Russian deputy Foreign minister.
The PA. PLO representatives of other Arab governments and terrorist
organisations including Hamas decided to form a "technocratic" Government.
The terrorist organisations will be known as puppets. Hamas will for
now not be a visible puppet member.

https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/20482/palestinian-authority-united-hamas

Because of this there is not much point in making a full on attack
on Jaffa. Just take time they are not going anywhere.

This new organisation is a major tactical threat to the rest of the world.
It is not hard to see Putin's hand in this.
It seems that consideration must now be given to bringing Ukraine and
Israel into NATO.
It must be made clear to Russia that if they support and align with
the Islamists it can only end in war.

I think this has to be the most serious development for years.
A combination of Islamist countries and Islamist terrorist
organisations backed by a nuclear power must concern us all.
Russia should watch as they will come for you eventually.

Paul?

http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2024/mar/18/paul-keating-says-the-australian-should-be-contemptuously-ignored-ahead-of-wang-yi-meeting

"Keating, an outspoken opponent of the Australian government’s plans to acquire nuclear-powered submarines, also accused News Corp’s national broadsheet of being “trenchantly anti-Chinese”.

...The Australian newspaper was first to report that Chinese officials had invited Keating to a meeting with China’s foreign minister, Wang Yi, in Sydney later this week."