mjpb,
Actually I was raised as an Orthodox Christian so (for what it's worth) I guess my religious heritage even pre-dates Roman Catholicism.

Many of the finest and kindest people I know and associate with regard themselves as Christians. This also goes for most Muslims, Jews and Buddhists I know.

I even spent a year happily sharing a flat with two recently "born-again" Baptists.

However I put this down to their innate personal nature rather than their readiness to comply with some set of written instructions on how to behave.

I concede that organised religion provides personal comfort but seems to go seriously awry when practiced on a global scale and divides more than it unites.

The Jesus I think of would be very disappointed (and more than a little angry)in how things have turned out and what has been done in His name.

By the way, unfashionable as it seems, the medieval "Hellfire" analogy is still seriously tossed around in various Churches, particularly in the US Bible belt, as this satirical site demonstrates - http://www.landoverbaptist.org/

Some good jokes there - but none as funny as Philo's "homour" neologism :)

It could be a useful word if it wasn't inherently ambiguous: does it mean gay humour, jokes about homosexuals, or perhaps jokes made by Homer Simpson? Perhaps it was prompted by the idea of eternal buggery by the burning lake.

Supposedly more seriously, Philo says "God is revealed in human character, attitudes, behaviours and wisdom. Until we seek God in these expressions we will never perceive Him. All people are basicly (sic) self-centered, envious and lustful..."

So he's saying God is "revealed" as "self-centered, envious and lustful". Which is interesting, since these are highly adaptive traits for species that survive and evolve, as humans have.

Man created God/s in his own image to provide meaning, comfort and moral authority over others. I have no objection to them in general, except when other people's god/s intrude on my life - indeed, there is a direct and inverse relationship between my tolerance for religions and the degree to which they impinge on my existence.

For example, Buddhism seems to be a thoroughly unobjectionable religion. I wouldn't even know it existed in Australia if I didn't travel to the Byron Bay area regularly. You don't get Buddhists banging on your door or writing hateful tripe on Internet forums etc, so my tolerance for Buddhism is very high. Islam has virtually zero impact on my life, beyond an indirect enrichment of my diet and the fact the largest employer in my town is a halal mutton and goat exporter, so I guess my business indirectly benefits from Islam somewhat :) Allah Be Praised!

Scotty will pleased to know that I made a point of having a nice doner kebab for lunch today, with EXTRA TABBOULI!

The post not far up the thread that seems to think only the JW,s think the dead remain dead is a grin!
To think some one can enter the debate not having read the Bible, or even used it to prop up a chair with one short leg.
The dead are dead until Christ comes again!
I am unconcerned but interested in the mild attempts at force used to convince me I am bad for not further contemplating God.
Having an understanding, once been a time wasting born again I have gathered my information and made my choice.
I am no better or worse than any human for having done so.
No God exists for me I need non no hell no heaven just live to standards that give you joy and no other person harm and it will be a good life.
May I ask a favor of those who believe? next time your religious leader breaks those rules to live by , even some terrible acts can we all remember to bring them to task?

Time for some serious Theology .... out of the early Church, and the emergence of some heavy duty thinkers (like Athanasius, Tertullian, Jereome, Augustine etc) we see the various creeds of the Church....

NICENE CREED.

We believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all that is, seen and unseen.
We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one Being with the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit
he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary,
and was made man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered death and was buried.
On the third day he rose again
in accordance with the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.

We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son.
With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified.
He has spoken through the Prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.
We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come. Amen

The single phrase which divided Eastern Orthodox from Catholic was in the last paragraph about the Holy Spirit "from the Father AND the Son"

Wobbles,

Interesting site.

God is a person/concept that needs a regular look at just in case we can get some clarity on Who holds the Keys .

Some God fearing and powerfull older Baptists seem very anti Aboriginal in our small farming town .

We have been trying to get a modern Interperative Centre with the emphasis on European/Aboriginal shared history in the interest of Indigenous Reconciliation up and running and have received a lot of criticsm for our efforts - some of it has been extremely racist .

I suspect God is not impressed but then, who would really know?

Wobbles,

“However I put this down to their innate personal nature rather than their readiness to comply with some set of written instructions on how to behave.”

Of course it would be hard to know which came first. Some people get religious already being of kind character. Some people shape up after discovering religion like those from criminal or drug addict type backgrounds, and some people consider themselves religious but don’t embrace the religious teachings about being kind.

“I concede that organised religion provides personal comfort but seems to go seriously awry when practiced on a global scale and divides more than it unites.”

This impression is of course in the context that it is hard to separate the human factors from the religious factors and extremely large groups of people have sustained a reasonably undivided background for up to centuries at a time coming to grief most prominently when people became less attached to their religious heritage eg. Christian Europe. Religion is often used by power brokers as an excuse when they not the religion cause the conflict.

“The Jesus I think of would be very disappointed (and more than a little angry)in how things have turned out and what has been done in His name.”

Probably yes but also no. I presume he would be very pleased with many of the things and many of the people. People like St Nicholas, St Francis or Mother Theresa.

Belly,

That would be me…

Sorry if you are looking for mild attempts at force and read it into my comments. It makes you sound like you were traumatised by your past. That is not good. Did they initiate you with unfriendly chair comments?

There is no need to bring religious leaders to task if they break the rules. The media make a sport of it. I’d be better off seeing them as an imperfect humans.