The eyes of the world are fixed on Gaza. We hear about the loss of life every day and our hearts turn to those under brutal attack.

Yet as usual the Atheists out there come out and blame religion for the terrible circumstances there. This is despite the fact many religions get on fine (in principle) in places like Australia for example.

Many Atheists are split though on the Gaza conflict on who is actually to blame religion wise. They have to find something religiously to blame, without having to take any questioning on their own principles in terms of life and social standing.

In one article I've read online, the main blame is placed on others and Israel/Jews are left out of the debate. Well if you're a Jew it's still part of a formed religion. I would argue though many Jews oppose the actions of the Israeli government on Gaza and the occupation of land.

We've always had religion in life (in various forms) and while there are many advances in technology and science there are no significant changes in human psychology which I feel will see these conflicts continue like in Gaza, it's not always the fault of religion.

FALSE REASONS GIVEN by the Palestinians to attack Israel on Oct 7th
1. THE OCCUPIED TERRITORY
Gaza has not been occupied for 17years. The Palestinians elected Hamas as their government. They were given truckloads of humanitarian
aid to turn Gaza into a well run prosperous state. Like all fascist - Authoritarian Islamic states, they don't run happy states they oppress their people, and they tell the people it is Israel's fault to deflect the anger of the people

Gaza Was not the Occupied Territories, It was a defence Buffer Zone taken along the Israelie border after one of the many missile attacks by Palestine on Israel when the Israele Soldiers discovered tunnels being dug under Gaza to get into Israel to attack.
Israele totally withdrew from Gaza in 2006.........continued

.....Palestinian propaganda continued

False Palestinian claim :
2. APARTHEID

Around the year 2,000 there had been over 120 terror attacks inside Israel the worst being the blowing up of a school bus full of Jewish Children. Israel built a border wall and required passes for Palestinians coming into Israel, to shop, to work and to visit Israelie hospitals.

The Palestinians now call this Apartheid, notice how they cherry pick the sequence of events so the Arabs never admit blame for anything.
I've noticed this in all Islamic Arab societies. Whereas we in the West fall over backwards to admit blame

Winston Churchill had the right idea: he considered the Palestinians to be on a level with indigenous populations such as the Australian Aboriginals..
The British view was to quietly extinguish them.

That being a main motivator for his support of the Jewish State. The Jews were considered a superior race (White).

How attitudes change.

Dear Nathan,

Thank you for bringing up this issue.

Religion is blamed because it is popular and easy to do so, even when one has no clue what religion is.

«it's not always the fault of religion.»

It never is!

Suppose even that Judaism and/or Islam were responsible for the present war, suffering and loss of life - so what? that does not automatically qualify them as religions.

While individuals CAN use Judaism and Islam (and Christianity) as a religion, or incorporate parts thereof into their own religion, others can use the above for completely different ends, at times even for opposing ends. In other words, these three are religions for some but not for others.

To clarify, if a path does not lead one closer to God, then it is not a religion. It could be many other things, nice or not so nice, just not a religion.

Also, it is not enough for one to believe that a particular course of action leads them closer to God in order to call that course of action a "religion" (or a part thereof) - that course of action must IN FACT bring them closer to God, and I don't believe that there is even one reader here on OLO who thinks that murdering innocent people can help anyone to come closer to God!

Hi Nathan,

I've just read an interesting article in the Jewish
Israeli newspaper - Haaretz. It says that:

Religious devotion starkly connects with political
extremism in this conflict. Religious Jews, and
Muslims stoke incitement and violence.

In the Israeli-Palestinian context
religious movements are the prime actors stoking and
sparking escalation. From Hamas or Islamic Jihad rockets
fired into Israel, to radical Jewish settler attacks on
Palestinians and relentless settlement expansion over decades.

Haaretz points out that because of the centrality to
society and politics on both sides - there can be no peace
without at least a partial acquiescence of religious
communities.

Haaretz tells us that "Many believer's narratives are tribal
and exclusive - we alone are the chosen group and our claims
alone are correct. Most importantly the divine religious
mission is often framed as a matter of life or death."

Haaretz says that Jews sanctify the notion of "giving one's life
for the land." And that Palestinian religious extremist groups
such as Hamas and Islamic Jihad support killing and attacking
civilians and themselves too, if needed.

We're told that notably on both sides the cause is considered
so holy that it justifies violating each other's own religious
principles.

The conclusion by Haaretz is that it is religious thinking that
exacerbates the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

We're told that political compromise cannot satisfy the
extremists but that efforts for peace must include a willing
portion of the religious opposition, or at least convince
them to refrain from spoiling the effort.

I can see how religion may be blamed on the Israeli side (God gave it to us)
In truth it was the Zionists who wanted to establish a Jewish state in Palestine, and Laurence of Arabia who deceived the Palestinian people into fighting the Ottomans, after being told they would be allowed to have their own state.

But I think Palestinians would have every reason to oppose the land theft, the killings, torture and subjagation and creation of the State of Israel in 1948 (regardless of their own religion) and you can't blame them for being outraged at what was done to their people during that time, continuing onwards to this very day.

Some people here like to sell a lie that the war stated on Oct 7.
If Jews broke out of Auschwitz concentration camp and attacked those German Nazi's who enslaved them there wouldn't be any opposition, and if Jews had no sympathy for the innocent Germans who were bombed in their cities (such as Drenden) then why should we have sympathy for Israeli victims, or their enslavers?

Zionists conspired to start what has become this resulting conflict back in 1897.

Dear Foxy,

Good on you for citing Haaretz - it is a good and balanced (though expensive) source of correct information and so long as you stick to it you will not fall victim to false news.

Were you aware that some Nazis in Israel's government are scheming to close Haaretz down?

But while I consider Haaretz an authority on mundane affairs, I do not count it as a guru on spiritual matters and the understanding of religion.

Religious devotion starkly XXXXXXXX---connects-XXXXXXXX CONFLICTS with political extremism in this conflict. Truly religious Jews, and Muslims never stoke incitement and violence. Those who do have no regard for God, only for their national biases - their religiosity is fake!

---

Dear Critic,

«Some people here like to sell a lie that the war stated on Oct 7.
If Jews broke out of Auschwitz concentration camp and attacked those German Nazi's»

So how did these Jews get into Auschwitz in the first place?
Were they just laying there keeping their sheep on a cold winter night?

«In truth it was the Zionists who wanted to establish a Jewish state in Palestine»

They wanted to establish a HEBREW state, not a Jewish state, an inclusive Hebrew state which would invite in the natives and treat them all as equals - it was the world and the United-Nations, taking pity on the Jews following the holocaust, which forced them to compromise on a Jewish state instead.

«But I think Palestinians would have every reason to oppose the land theft,»

Talking about theft, yet more than happy to cash in the money they received for this land.

«the killings, torture and subjagation and creation of the State of Israel in 1948»

There was no torture (except of Jews in Arab countries).
As for killings and subjugation, why wouldn't they think of the consequences before senselessly attacking?
Had they not attacked in 1948, then Israel would remain very small even today, confined only to the areas it purchased with that money that local Arabs were more than happy to accept.

Yuyutsu,

I certainly know how to sift through and separate
myths from facts. That's what librarians are trained
to do.

As far as the middle east conflict goes - I'll leave
you to your perceptions.

I don't see the conflict ending anytime soon. At least
not as long as Netanyahu stays so focused on staying
in power and pandering to religious extremists.

Yuyutsu, you have a very good understanding of the facts.

The Muslim Hamas extremists see this as a religious war as non Muslims are treading on sacred sites in Jerusalem, desecrating them. The lands has once been claimed for Allah, and now kafir feet occupy the lands. Hamas will not rest till all the lands have been restored to Allah. This in not understood by Western educated minds. Israel realizes this and hence their attempt to eradicate Extremists.

http://www.vox.com/politics/2023/10/10/23911661/hamas-israel-war-gaza-palestine-explainer
"There’s a series of factors that may have contributed to Hamas’s decision to strike now — essentially, things the group wants to see stopped in the short term. Those include what the group described as Israeli settlers’ desecration of the al-Aqsa Mosque, a Muslim holy site near sites also holy to Christians and Jews."

So how did these Jews get into Auschwitz in the first place?
Were they just laying there keeping their sheep on a cold winter night?

- How did the Palestinians find themselves in concentration camps?

"They wanted to establish a HEBREW state, not a Jewish state, an inclusive Hebrew state which would invite in the natives and treat them all as equals"

My mistake, 'Home for the Jews' and all that
It's hard for an outsider to always find the correct term for each instance.

"Talking about theft, yet more than happy to cash in the money they received for this land."
Some might've sold their land, but I'm not convinced they'd sell their childrens futures to make way for another nation.
Was it one of these 'Godfather' type scenarios?
'Well make you an offer you can't refuse'?

And then Israel decided why should we bother trying to buy the land
When many of these people do not wish to relinquish it?
We shall declare ourselves 'The State of Israel' and run these people out, and any that resist, we will shoot them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakba
>>The Nakba 'the catastrophe' was the violent displacement and dispossession of Palestinians, and the destruction of their society, culture, identity, political rights, and national aspirations. The term is used to describe both the events of 1948, as well as the ongoing occupation of the Palestinian territories (the West Bank and the Gaza Strip) and persecution and displacement of Palestinians throughout the region.

The foundational events of the Nakba took place during and shortly after the 1948 Palestine war, including 78% of Mandatory Palestine being declared as Israel, the expulsion and flight of 700,000 Palestinians, the related depopulation and destruction of over 500 Palestinian villages by Zionist militias and later the Israeli army and subsequent geographical erasure, the denial of the Palestinian right of return, the creation of permanent Palestinian refugees, and the "shattering of Palestinian society".<<

Oh, btw, I never said I had no sympathy for innocent Israelis,
I said it's becoming increasing more difficult (as more innocent people are killed), for me to do so.

Armchair Critic, If someone wants you dead, are they innocent? Read the Koran 9:12 and see how they view Jews, and unbelievers. Those that have hate in their hearts are equally guilty of murder.

I've seen ample videos of Jews and Israelis expressing their own hate.

What about all the Palestinian Christians being bombed and killed by Israel in the holy land, and who would be spat upon by Orthodox Jews in Israel for being 'idolators'?

Your moral compass is spinning wildly like a ship in the bermuda triangle, sorry Josephus.

Do unto others as they would have them do unto you?
Thou shalt not kill?
Love thy enemy?

None of it matters anyway Israel is not going to achieve anything except piss them off more...
- And so this vicious cycle of neverending crimes against humanity will continue.

Pull up a chair and grab some popcorn and enjoy the killing of Christians in the cursed Holy land that you and your kind are helping to facilitate.
Go celebrate the murder of Christians and women and kids.
You're a fake Christian.. In name only.
I can see it, and I'm not even religious...

Here's why it won't matter:

Blinken said to warn war cabinet Israel may not have months to topple Hamas
http://www.timesofisrael.com/blinken-said-to-warn-war-cabinet-it-may-not-have-months-to-topple-hamas/
US diplomat says Israel must change way it is fighting, set up safe zones, avoid hospitals, UN facilities: ‘Massive loss of civilian life’ in north Gaza must not be repeated in south

This entire conflict is ridiculous.
That's the only word I can find for it.

I'll draw a different but similar picture here metaphorically...

Let's say I head over to your place Josephus
Pitch my tent in your front yard, and proclaim this is my land now, God gave it to me.
I've got a little indigenous in me, and my ancestors lived here 2000 years ago.

Now for some strange reason, you're displeased with this forced arrangement.
You come out the front to threaten and attack me.

Well 'God' gave it to me you know, and I need to protect myself.
Sorry Josephus, I'm going to have to nail your front and back doors shut, and put bars on your windows - to protect myself from your aggressive behavior.

Then you start throwing things at me out the window..
And I think my myself, "I've just been TOO KIND to these people, I just don't understand why they act this way, they are yelling obsenities out the window at me, saying they want to kill me"

Your daughter throws something at me, so I cart her off to the back shed...

"These people want to kill me and they hurl things at me" I say.
- I just don't understand why, these people are such animals.

"Do you want me to turn your water off and stop allowing your online food deliveries" Josephus?

"Stop resisting!"

So in order to protect myself I board up all your windows.

You scream that this is an injustice, you call the cops and the local council, saying this situation is completely outrageous and that you have rights.
But your calls go unheard...
You see I pay off the cops and the local council. (US)
I've got them in my back pocket...

- And I also have the support of the Christians who won't say a bad word about all this, if fact they agree with me that I need to defend and protect myself from you.

There, that's how ridiculous this bs is.
And that's why 'ridiculous' is the only word for it.

As is usual, the problem arises because people don't use reason to control and direct instinctive behaviour.
I think we need more or better education about this?
And we most certainly should not take 'sides' when there is conflict.
People are fighting.
This is destructive and damaging in both the short and long term.
For us as well as for them.
So they need to stop.
All draw back, and realise they need each other.
And direct their energy towards constructive projects which will benefit all.
But they are blind to this?
So an external force is needed to direct them towards this goal.
Fortunately, it is there, and active.
But human nature doesn't like reason.
So this conflict will probably run a destructive course.
I feel for the parents trying to protect their children.

Dear Josephus,

«Those include what the group described as Israeli settlers’ desecration of the al-Aqsa Mosque, a Muslim holy site near sites also holy to Christians and Jews."»

This provocation was a filthy political show-off by members of Israel's Nazi party, which I totally condemn.

---

Dear Critic,

«My mistake, 'Home for the Jews' and all that
It's hard for an outsider to always find the correct term for each instance.»

That was the later compromise they had to accept when the United-Nations started messing around. The original Zionists didn't come to Israel in order to remain Jews, nor wanted any "Home for the Jews" - they only wanted like-minded people of working age (be they Jewish or otherwise) to join them in renewing the Hebrew culture on the land.

«Some might've sold their land, but I'm not convinced they'd sell their childrens futures to make way for another nation.»

Some did, others did not, it was completely up to them and those who wanted could join that new nation too.

«Was it one of these 'Godfather' type scenarios?
'Well make you an offer you can't refuse'?»

The offers were quite generous, but nobody was compelled to accept them.

Had the local Arab militias and the armies of surrounding Arab countries not attacked Israel in 1948, there would have been no Naqba and Israel would have remained a very small country indeed... unless of course more local Arabs wanted to sell off their lands at a later date.

Well all I can say here is that:
Say a person of Chinese descent buys a house in Australia.
Just because they own it, doesn't mean they can form a new country or that the land is now under the jurisdiction of China.

I think your a reasonably decent person Yuyutsu.
You'd have to be, to come from Israel, cop my criticism of Israel, and Jews, IDF and settlers and understand I just want this endless conflict and the needless lives taken to stop.

Thanks for enlightening me about things as you do.

Dear Critic,

Just prior to October 7th, there were serious conversations of splitting Israel into two states, a moderate "Israel" on the north and west with Tel Aviv as capital, and a fanatic Jewish-Messianic "Judea" to the south and east with Jerusalem as capital, which would also include the West Bank. The two groups found it harder and harder to live together, especially with Netanyahu at the helm.

Apart from my deep concern for those who would have to relocate their homes as a result, I considered that plan a good idea, but the 7th of October turned the tables and wiped off any such plans since Hamas makes no such distinctions between sheep and goats.

In today's news, a Jewish-Israeli man who tried to defend Arab shepherds in the West Bank from settlers, was wounded by rocks and nearly died. Another was attacked by the settlers with pepper spray straight into his eyes.

Not all Israelis are the same, not even all who see themselves as Zionists, and some can be quite hurt when collectively accused for the disgusting crimes of the Jewish settlers who are their own enemies.

«Say a person of Chinese descent buys a house in Australia.
Just because they own it, doesn't mean they can form a new country or that the land is now under the jurisdiction of China.»

Well this China example is different for security reasons, because China is a hostile empire which wants to take over Australia and enslave its people. Denying that is an obvious case of self-defence.

But suppose a BENIGN group of people who own a contiguous territory, peacefully wishes to secede from Australia and form their own country, then I always held the view that they should be able to do so, that it is wrong to force a state, any state, over people who never wanted to be part thereof. And yes, bar security reasons, and once these security issues are resolved, the same goes for the West Bank and Gaza.

Hi Yuyutsu,
"Well this China example is different for security reasons, because China is a hostile empire which wants to take over Australia and enslave its people. Denying that is an obvious case of self-defence."

Well I don't know how different things were in 1948, but they couldn't have been too much better than today, if back then they ran the Palestinians out of 500 villages, and shot anyone who decided to stand their ground and resist.

And I have heard several times that some Israelis seem to advocate that Arabs will be their slaves, after conquest of all the land 'Eretz Israel', so I think there are similarities there.
You may however set me straight on this if I'm wrong.

- I've seen footage of little Israeli kids saying 'When I grow up I'll be in the IDF and I will drive a jeep and kill the Arabs' and 'they will be our slaves'.

Found out some information earlier about Itamar Ben-Gvir, Israels far-right, Pro-Settler, Minister of National Security.
He's an 8 times convicted terrorist, (convicted by Israeli courts).

Here's an article I just found about something he recently did.

Israel’s Insidious Narrative About Palestinian Prisoners
http://theintercept.com/2023/11/26/palestine-israel-prisoners/
'More than two-thirds of the Palestinians proposed for release by Israel under the truce have not been convicted of any crimes. Most were arrested as children.'

Maybe this here will show some of the Pro-Israel forum members the type of people they are supporting:
(Back to the article)

[Cont.]
- From the article linked to in previous comment:

>>The Israeli government narrative surrounding the Palestinian prisoners being released during this temporary ceasefire is both insidious and dishonest. Interior Minister Itamar Ben Gvir has banned Palestinians from celebrating their release. “My instructions are clear: there are to be no expressions of joy,” he said. “Expressions of joy are equivalent to backing terrorism, victory celebrations give backing to those human scum, for those Nazis.” He told Israeli police to deploy an “iron fist” to enforce his edict.<<

From what I understand he's given strict instructions that any Palestinian celebrating the release of prisoners be arrested.

mhaze says there's no occupation, why then does the UN refer to Israeli Occupation Forces?

Imagine if your 10 year old daughter was carted off to an Israeli prison, and held without charge on 'Administrative Detention'
I'd be willing to bet that every single person on this forum would be enraged if this happened to their child.

And that's what the Israeli government does.
- Acts in a manner that enrages the Palestinians, and then when they act out, they use that to justify more harsh treatment against them.

This is not a fair and reasonable democracy, it's a NAZI terrorist state.

Kidnapping and holding children without charge is not what a reasonable democratic nation that respects the rule of law would do.

[Cont.]
Lets have a look at something else I found relating to Itamar Ben Gvir.

EXPOSED: ISRAEL'S INHUMANE TREATMENT OF PALESTINIAN PRISONERS
http://twitter.com/SamParkerSenate/status/1724804995042951430

"Yesterday, Tuesday, the Israeli Minister of National Security, Itamar Ben Gvir, visited one of the prisons where the Gazan prisoners are held, saying that he had confirmed that they were exposed to the harshest conditions. Ben Gvir supervised ensuring that the Israeli national anthem was broadcast in the prisons at all times, and that the prisoners’ hands and feet were tied, and they were placed in a dark cell containing 8 people. And they slept on iron beds and allocated a floor toilet for them, and starved and thirsted them, and he also called for the passage of a law legalizing their execution. The end of the clip shows a glimpse of the humiliation and abuse of a prisoner."

- This is not anyway to treat people, especially those who may never have even been charged with a crime.

Dear Critic,

«Found out some information earlier about Itamar Ben-Gvir, Israels far-right, Pro-Settler, Minister of National Security.»

When I hear his name I want to vomit.

When that petty criminal Netanyahu found no other friends, when no decent person was willing to serve under him in coalition, he had to pick up that Nazi scum, who keeps blackmailing himself too.

Yesterday, Israel's public-servant in charge of the department for gun-licensing, resigned because he could no longer follow the instructions of that Nazi to give guns to everyone.

«Well I don't know how different things were in 1948, but they couldn't have been too much better than today, if back then they ran the Palestinians out of 500 villages, and shot anyone who decided to stand their ground and resist.»

1948 was chaotic.
Israel was attacked from all sides.
Some Israeli villages were conquered, their members murdered, raped and kidnapped.
At other locations, Israel was winning, but central control and policies were not yet well established,
so the decision what to do with the defeated Arabs was left for the local young commanders, typically in the rank of captain, who made independent and different decisions. Some drove the Arabs away, others allowed them to stay.

«And I have heard several times that some Israelis seem to advocate that Arabs will be their slaves, after conquest of all the land 'Eretz Israel', so I think there are similarities there.
You may however set me straight on this if I'm wrong.»

I'm afraid that I cannot set you straight there, so long as you place the word 'SOME' in the largest CAPITAL font.

«why then does the UN refer to Israeli Occupation Forces?»

That you need to ask them: as far as Gaza is concerned they were in error.

«This is not a fair and reasonable democracy, it's a NAZI terrorist state.»

It is not fair or reasonable to blame all Israelis, including my family, for the crimes of the same government they suffer under which they cannot do anything about, except for demonstrating in the streets which they already do.

Yuyutsu,

I wish you and your family in Israel well and I hope that
this conflict will end soon for the sake of all concerned.

So many have died and continue to die. The lists of the names
of the dead is horrendous. And it will continue to grow
unless a permanent ceasefire occurs.

May your family be safe.

Om Shanti, Shanti, Shanti (Peace, peace, peace.)

Hmmm, here is my view of it all.
Islam is a very intolerant religion.
The Koran makes no excuse for advocating the killing of those that
reject Allah. It takes a hard line on kafirs (you and me) that refuse
to accept Allah and who refuse to pay the Jizaz tax that all
non moslems must pay to moslems.
They also believe that land once occupied by moslems, even for a short
time remains Islamic land forever. That is what gets them into a lot
of conflict.
Historically as far as I have learnt the Jews were originally known
as Canaanites who lived in that part of Mesopotamia as it was known before the Arab invasion.
The Jews lived there for about 3000 years.
So that part that was known as Judea in Roman times forms the homeland
of the Jews.
In the 7th century Islam was invented by someone, who some say never
existed, called Mohommad who said that an angel called Gabriel, gave
him the text of the Koran.
This is where it gets messy.
to be continued

Continued;
In the early 7th century after the death of Mohommad the then Calif
sent forth his armies to conquer the whole world, especially Rome.
The Arab armies were very successful as they conquered Syria, Egypt,
Persia, North Africa and India.
In 637 they took over Jerusalem and expelled the Jews.
An interesting fact puzzle here.
As the invasions from Arabia were supposed to start after the death
of Mohommad, how could he have mounted a horse with the head of a man
and flown off to meet Allah from the dome of the rock at the mosque
on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem ?

Anyway the Islamists managed by hook or by crook to force all the
Christians and Zoroastrians that was the religion to become Moslems
or else. This technique was very successful as it is still practised
in Africa today.

Become a moslem or pay the Jizaz or die ! Very convincing.
They ran into a lot of resistance in India which led
to the partition of India to Pakistan in 1945.
So today because the Islamic Arabs occupied what we know as Israel,
Judea or the West Bank for some time they believe it is theirs forever.
However when the UN restored the Area to the Jews the Moslems were to
say the least very upset.
This is where you came in !

Many people are unaware that in France on average two churches are
vandalised or if anyone there are threatened every day.
A priest was slaughtered before the alter.
A school teacher was decapitated because in an art class he showed an
image of Mohammad.
Islamic crime is a daily event in France. The situation in Germany is
very similar.
The theory is that as the number of moslems in the population gets to
be near 10% they start demanding that we change our practises to
suit their requirements.
They are becoming impatient in Europe with the progress to Eurabia.
Murders on public transport in Germany seems to be reported many times
a year.
Sweden is another case, Islamic crime has reached the stage where
explosion attacks in Stockholm has reached 200 a year.
Malmo has a very high percentage of moslems where the moslems bombed
the police station. The building was unrepairable and a new police
station was built like a fort.

In Africa Boko Haram gangs raid villages murder tens of Christians in
their church and take hostages. Yet we almost never hear reports of
these murderous campaigns in our media.
The activity of Moslems in Sydney & Melbourne in recent times are a
warning and echo of the way it developed in France Germany Sweden and the UK.
The media plays it all down or do not even report incidents.
The reluctance of Police to act has been a feature of the problem
in Europe. Example;
In the UK a man was bashing on the door of a house where his daughter
was being held as a sex slave by a Pakistani gang.
He called the police but they came and arrested the father !

If this all seems way out then you need to stop avoiding it all.

Dear Bezza,

Poor Muhammad, peace be upon him, was a Christian, he never claimed any relations with angels or flying on a horseback, and had nothing to do with the Quran, written at least 160 years after his death, before which there was no Islam.

People believe whatever they like to believe, and Muslims are no different. When their interests change, they will also find the necessary excuses to either modify or reinterpret their scriptures.

Hello Yuyutsu, correct they do believe what they wish, but that is
the problem, it appears that most of them do believe it all.
Then a significant percentage will act on those beliefs.
Hence the attack in Israel on 7th October.
It does seem that Erdogan Pres of Turkey believes it all, and threatens
to act on his belief.
I did read one comment somewhere that a few parts of the Koran text
must have been written by someone in Iraq around the year 900ad because
of the grammar and some words were not in use till then.
However none of that matters, what matters is what they believe.

It is important for the police and security as well as the man in the
street to have some understanding of what the Moslem population believes.

Bezza,

How do you know what the "Muslim population" believes?

You keep on and on with your sweeping generalizations
about this group of people. The Muslim population is
huge. There are many different cultures and languages
involved. And they don't all practice their beliefs
in exactly the same way. As neither do Jews, Christians,
or any other group. Plus there are the Sunni Muslims
and the Shía. Do you know their differences?

Your generalizations don't allow for individual differences.
And you really need to stop with your sweeping generalizations
about Muslims. Stick to talking about extremists and
fundamentalists - who exist in all religions - including
Christians.

Do you even know any Muslims?

Have they discussed their beliefs with you?

Where does this knowledge about Muslims that you
espouse come from?

I see Foxy excusing extremist Muslim beliefs with Christian beliefs. She cannot tell the moral difference. Where do we have Christians anywhere in the World violently raping women, mutilating their bodies piling them naked in a heap and burning them alive as Hamas did. She is not horrified by this barbarity, and believes it is practiced by some Christian believers.

Foxy, it is quite simple really, I believe what they say they will do.
Hamas has said they will do it again and again and again.
If you say it is all a fancy "they will come for you" as the saying goes.
It does not take all of them, but the majority will not stop them.
Gaza is a good example, I am sure the majority of the Gazans now wish
Hamas had not attacked Israel, yet some hundreds of the non Hamas
Gazans joined in the fun on the 7th October.
One even rang his mother to tell her how proud she can be of her son
because he killed four Israelis by his own hands.
You need to watch the in school videos of them training the 10 year old
boys to be Hamas killers.

Now I am sure you will say all that is Israeli propaganda.
There are non so blind as those who will not see !
Research it yourself, it is not secret, they are proud to talk about
how they will kill those that oppose Alah. etc etc etc.
The Calif of Jerusalem even advised Hitler how to kill the Jews !
Rose coloured specticals are long out of fashion Foxy.

Bezza,

Truth is not hard to see if you open your eyes.

From a correspondent in Israel,
"Two months ago today, Hamas began unleashing its evil on Israel in the deadliest day for Jews since the Holocaust.
Hamas is still firing countless jihadist rockets at Israeli civilians. Israeli soldiers have now found the remains of women and babies taken by Hamas and murdered in the most barbarically evil ways imaginable.
EVIL. That really is the only way to describe it. Yet Hamas' barbarity is being celebrated around the world. The U.N. Secretary-General blames Israel for the unthinkable scores of Israeli civilians massacred by the jihadists. The International Criminal Court is seeking to prosecute Israel, and Congresswoman Tlaib has amplified Hamas' call for the utter destruction of Israel "from the river to the sea."
Hamas will not honor any ceasefire. Israel has no choice but to defend itself and root out and destroy these terrorists.'

Bazza, Foxy has no moral founding, as she supports the UN

Foxy said; Truth is not hard to see if you open your eyes.

Then wakey wakey wakey Foxy !

"“Nowhere is safe in Gaza,” Guterres declared. But no one is safe in Israel either.

Surrounded by autocracies that hate it, even deny its right to exist, Israel naturally lashes out at its enemies to ensure its survival, just as Western nations bombed Germany and Japan to bring about an end to World War II, for the sake of global peace.

A ceasefire would give Hamas, which appears to have grievously miscalculated, time to regroup and plan further attacks.

Israel’s operations have made clear progress, methodically wiping out Hamas commanders. Israel is in the best position to judge the appropriate response to the horrors of October 7, given it has to live with the consequences.

Squawking about Israel’s supposed transgressions of the laws of war, which were written decades ago before such state-backed terrorism was even imagined, ignores the existential realities Israel faces.

If Guterres doesn’t agree with Israel’s right to exist, then he’s forgetting the role of the UN itself in 1947, which agreed to the partition of Palestine which foreshadowed the creation of Israel a year later.

Israel, like any liberal democracy, isn’t perfect. But it’s vastly superior to the primitive terrorist outfit that still, just, runs Gaza.

Even the Arab nations are secretly hoping Hamas evaporates in the Israeli bombardment.

Whatever the wrongs of decades ago, the UN, as a body founded on democratic principles, should give the benefit of the doubt to the only bona fide liberal democracy in the Middle East on a question of its very survival."

“Nowhere is safe in Gaza,” Guterres declared.
But no one is safe in Israel either."
Well they Israelis should have realised you can't keep kicking the dog 'cos it soon realises it has nothing to lose by biting back.
Calling Palestinians 'dogs and animals' doesn't make it true.
Subjecting them to the same propaganda measures as the Germans did to the Jews just means that the Jews in Israel learned nothing other than how to behave as thugs.
All human beings are entitled to their dignity and the right to pursue happiness.
No one is entitled to deprive them of that, least all the Israelis!

Calling Jews descendants of pigs and monkeys is likewise trouble making.
Mohammad was the first terrorist to attack the Jews when his gang
attacked a Jewish village in Arabia. They set the patten for how you
attack other people and Hamas learnt that lesson.

Bezza,
Oh I see, so you want to go back to when,
'when his gang attacked a Jewish village in Arabia.
So if every action has a corresponding action, what gave cause to this attack, in the name of religion, you mention.
So why stop there, why not include the royalty and governments of western countries that appointed those of the Hebrew faith as tax collectors and then claimed it was the Jews who were responsible for the excessive taxes whenever the populace rose in revolt.

The Koran identifies Jews and Kafir [unbelievers] as dogs and monkeys, they refuse dogs in their premises because they are unclean. Hamas take an extremist view of the Koran as taught by Mohamed, for 1,400 years, the same values as Mohamed taught at the point of a knife or gun is expected you live if you are Muslim. Islam is based on fear and hate is the reason they cannot love and forgive. The extremist view must be eradicated from society as it destroys civilized society

Sp Del, Islam is trouble everywhere.
Mohammad was a desert robber by tradition and attacked caravans passing
through Arabia. However it is thought by many that he did not exist
and that Islam was dreampt up a hundred or so years later.
But all that does ot matter anyway.
Now even the Iran run Huties in Yeman are attacking ships in the Red Sea.
We might be sending a ship to patrol the area.
The quickest and fastest way to stop that is for the Insurance
companies to remove cover on ships in the Red Sea.
That above all will bring the whole world out on these terrorist groups.

Little people postulate little thoughts in the hope to be recognised and accepted whilst sniggering in their delusional world of imaginary substance.
To these I suggest gardening as a meaningful pastime.

Oct 7 wasn't actually a terrorist attack any more than it was a military raid by Hamas. There was 2 military barracks and intelligence centres they targeted, and the Supernova music festival just happened to be right on the road between these 2 places.

First Hamas took the first military base in the south, they killed hundreds of IDF, and took down servers which contained info on Israeli agents in Gaza and West Bank which they took. Without that data and losing control over these intelligence centres Israel was blind.

Israel was enraged and initiated the Hanibal doctrine, they wanted to stop this force of Hamas moving north (through the music festival area) and reaching the second military base and intelligence centre.

So the Israelis went crazy and were killing everything that moved indiscriminately including the Israeli citizens at the music festival themselves.

And after being so completely caught off guard and made fools of, the Israelis have spent the last 2 months murdering everyone in Gaza in collective retribution and the ones left will probably die of thirst or starvation.

They've since had up to 5000 IDF members seriously wounded in their ground offensive.
Some reports say 3800, the number is probably somewhere in between.

Whatever the wrongs of decades ago, the UN, as a body founded on democratic principles, should give the benefit of the doubt to the only bona fide liberal democracy in the Middle East on a question of its very survival."

'benefit of the doubt' for killing 20,000 women and kids?
You really are a clueless and ignorant piece of crap aren't you.

Always willing to give your masters a free pass...
'Israel genocides 20,000 women and kids, move on everyone nothing to see here'
You supported this you piece of dog shite, and now you want everyone to look the other way and for Israel to get a free pass.

That's never going to happen.
The Israelis who took this genocideal response on innocents as well as attacks by Israeli settlers - belong in Nuremberg, prison or dead themselves.

Israel is a women and child murdering genocidal apartheid terrorist state, and it's not Anti-Semitic anymore to say it.
- Or maybe it is but maybe 'Anti-Semitic' doesn't work anymore.

So reap what you have sowed, own it, love it.
- Israel will be criticised FOREVER now, you grovelling murder apologist.

You support the murder of women and kids, so no one cares what you say anyway
You have the mindset of a murderous Israeli settler.

Israel is no more a democracy than Hitler and the NAZI's themselves were.
Stacking the judiciary so that the leader cannot be prosecuted for his own crimes is hardly the type of thing that democratic nations do.
This is what authoritarian dictators would do, and Netanyahu himself supported the rise of Hamas, to negate any path towards a 2 state solution.

Baldrick,

Firstly the 20,000 figure is from Hamas propaganda and is as untrustworthy as those from Russia.

The only ones trying to commit genocide are the Hamas fanatics from Gaza.

"Much of Gaza is in smouldering ruin. And Gazans are to blame. They voted for Hamas and polls show they would do so again, not that they have had the chance lately. Hamas likes to present itself as a resistance movement, but its raison d’etre is the slaughter of Jews – and anyone else who would support Israel’s democracy. Most Gazans agree with that.

Not long before Hamas’s October 7 slaughter of innocents in Israel that 57 per cent of Gazans expressed “a somewhat positive” opinion of Hamas, as did 52 per cent of Palestinians on the West Bank."

The Ramallah-based Arab World for Research and Development on November 14 published the results of a poll it had taken, one question of which was: How do you view the role of Hamas? A total of 48.2 per cent responded “very positively” while 27.8 per cent responded “somewhat positive”. That means 76 per cent of Palestinians support Hamas after its depraved foot-soldiers flooded into Israel in October incinerating families, killing babies, raping men and women they then shot dead, and decapitating with a shovel one woman who fought them off.

Gaza’s leader, Ismail Haniyeh, 1800km away at the time, saw it all unfold on Al Jazeera, which he watched in his luxury office in Doha, the capital of Qatar. (The Qatari government funds Al Jazeera, which is best known for its anti-Semitic, anti-American broadcasts and its glorification of Islamic terror.)

The Hamas boss and his 13 children prefer Doha to the challenges of life in Gaza – which he is not-so-slowly destroying from a distance.

Senior Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh, pictured in Gaza City in 2014, is directing operations from his luxury digs in Doha, Qatar. Haniyeh is so murderously vile that even Fatah leader and Palestinian National Authority boss Mahmoud Abbas can’t stand him – although they do meet irregularly, bonded by their mutual hatred.

"Firstly the 20,000 figure is from Hamas propaganda and is as untrustworthy as those from Russia."

No. FIRSTLY Charter Boat, the truth IS NOT what you somehow decide it is. You hold US / Israeli lapdog status and bias and you spew your own Israeli propaganda as facts.
68% of buildings in Northern Gaza have been damaged or destroyed.
This is a verifiable fact, in the most populous place in the world.
This is like the bombing of Dresden, and a significant part of the dead lay uncounted rotting under the rubble.

"Much of Gaza is in smouldering ruin. And Gazans are to blame. They voted for Hamas and polls show they would do so again, not that they have had the chance lately."

I think you have the facts mixed up drongo, the Gazans did not drop the bombs on themselves, no. Israel did that, and it also bombed the schools, hospitals, ambulances, churches, mosques, journalists, cut off food, water, power, internet connectivity etc.
You speak as though the Palestinians did this to themselves...

"Hamas likes to present itself as a resistance movement, but its raison d’etre is the slaughter of Jews – and anyone else who would support Israel’s democracy. Most Gazans agree with that."

It doesn't 'present itself' as one,
(As you would like to bend over and present yourself to Netanyahu if you had the chance)
- It is one.
And talks / negotiations never worked, which made conflict and violence inevitable.
"http://twitter.com/realstewpeters/status/1735705180409155637"

Not long before Hamas’s October 7 slaughter of innocents in Israel that 57 per cent of Gazans expressed “a somewhat positive” opinion of Hamas, as did 52 per cent of Palestinians on the West Bank."

You mischaracterise.
Hamas broke through the fence and targeted surveillance posts and then Israeli military in their barracks in their pyjamas and slaughtered them, they also got to the servers that run all the surveillance and list Israeli informants, they were heading north to attack another military barracks / intelligence centre at which point Israel started engaging Hamas and other militants - killing people indiscriminately many of whom were Israelis, and started trotting out all these lies about rapes and beheaded babies.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/10/27/hamas-attack-israel-october-7-hostages/

“They knew exactly what they were doing,” said Shai Asher, 50, a member of the armed kibbutz security squad that battled Hamas gunmen that day, struggling to communicate with each other and unable to call for backup.

“The phone network doesn’t work, WhatsApp doesn’t work, everything is broken down, our radio doesn’t work, all the channels of command are missing,” he recalled. “They had a flawless battle plan that they executed flawlessly.”

Israel sells these October 7 events as 'Palestinian terrorists on a rampage' to hide the fact it was a carefully executed military raid, by those under held occupation that was extremely successful'

Yes, the spirit of resistance and intifada is growing.
- What did I tell you all was going to happen?
Hamas is becoming more popular, even all over the world.
And what else did I tell you - 'keep killing them and see what happens'.

Israel is not destroying Hamas, it's actually digging it's own grave.

Next well be sending troops and weapons to save the Israelis when this thing becomes a wider war and they find themselves out of their depths...

But they have brought this on themselves.
Even US support has limits.

Palestinian National Authority boss Mahmoud Abbas might as well be an Israeli asset. He 'keeps the peace' by identifying Palestinian dissidents for the Israelis to imprison.

It's like the West is incapable of acknowledging the tunnel vision reality that it supports and has normalised a relationship with an radicalist colonial / settler ethnic-terrorist apparteid state (or entity) that has an idiology and policy of ethnic cleansing in place for 100 years.

Baldrick,

I see that you are bending over for Hamas the same way you bent over for Putin.

Hamas has been caught out lying several times yet you take the casualty figures they put out as gospel. Is this because you are stupid or because you knowingly repeat lies because you adore terrorists?

This is a war that Hamas (who purportedly represents the people of Gaza) started and which Israel has the right to retaliate. If Israel was bent on genocide (genociding is not a word) the number of bombs it has dropped could have killed 100s of 1000s.

"I see that you are bending over for Hamas the same way you bent over for Putin."
- Lol, don't try to make me laugh; - You fool.

"Hamas has been caught out lying several times yet you take the casualty figures they put out as gospel. Is this because you are stupid or because you knowingly repeat lies because you adore terrorists?"
Well there's not really any decent choices in the options you set...
- the fact I recognise this means I can't be stupid
(not entirely anyway).

That leaves 'option b' "repeat lies because you adore terrorists",
- I guess I'll have to go with that, since you didn't include a 'None of the above'...

(Why lie about he number of dead? There's hardly a damn shortage - It's not like there's some sneaky little Palestinian working in the human rights organisation medical department telling some other Palestinian working there he needs to fiddle with and boost the numbers - and create fake names for the fake dead to document - like what? Seriously that's what you think? Like there's not plenty more dead unrecovered to find and count?)

No, I PERSONALLY think it seems to be a reasonably accurate kind of figure, given that 68% of the buildings in Northern Gaza, home to a million people, have been damaged or destroyed.

If that figure was for 'dead bodies recovered only' which I think it is, then it does not include dead bodies 'not recovered', whole families for example killed in airstrikes and building collapses and left rotting amongst the rubble of the apartment buildings they previously lived in.

So, I actually think the true number of dead in Gaza is significantly higher than reported, to be honest.
Possibly even magnitudes higher, double or three times higher in total, maybe.

Hi Josephus

"The Koran identifies Jews and Kafir [unbelievers] as dogs and monkeys, they refuse dogs in their premises because they are unclean. Hamas take an extremist view of the Koran as taught by Mohamed, for 1,400 years, the same values as Mohamed taught at the point of a knife or gun is expected you live if you are Muslim. Islam is based on fear and hate is the reason they cannot love and forgive. The extremist view must be eradicated from society as it destroys civilized society"

My response:

http://www.lpj.org/posts/gaza-16th-december-2023.html?s_cat=1102

"Around noon today, December 16 2023, a sniper of the IDF murdered two Christian women inside the Holy Family Parish in Gaza, where the majority of Christian families has taken refuge since the start of the war. Nahida and her daughter Samar were shot and killed as they walked to the sisters convent. One was killed as she tried to carry the other to safety. Seven more people were shot and wounded as they tried to protect others in the church compound. No warning was given, no notification was provided. They were shot in cold blood inside the premises of the Parish, where there are no belligerents.

Earlier in the morning, a rocket fired from an IDF tank targetted the Convent of the Sisters of Mother Theresa (Missionaries of Charity). The Convent is home to over 54 disabled persons..."

They kill Christians in cold blood in the Holy Land, yet you support them?
Should their extremist views also be eradicated from society as it destroys civilised society?
You've still got at least one eye closed, maybe both.

'their extremist views'

whose extremist views?
which views exactly?

This is a war that Hamas (who purportedly represents the people of Gaza) started and which Israel has the right to retaliate.

Yep they do, Israel has a right to defend themselves.
- That means attack military targets that can harm them.
It does not mean it's ok to kill non-combatants.

As well as this though, Palestinians have a 'right' if you call it that, to resist the oppression of their oppressors.

Israel calls it terrorism, but realistically its actually resistance.

Which means that if 6 year old Ahmad throws a rock at a tank, you don't shoot him in the head or bust into his house at 2am and execute or imprison his parents.

People under occupation have human rights under the Geneva convention.
You can't just murder them for fun or for collective punishment as a reprisal attack that aims to cause high civilian casualties, it's a war crime.

Baldrick,

The motivation for Hamas to lie about casualties is to put pressure on Israel which they have been caught out lying about before.

As for legitimate targets, a room containing Hamas and civilians is a legitimate target.

Deliberately shooting and beheading women and children is a war crime.

Look it up before you look more like an idiot.

"The motivation for Hamas to lie about casualties is to put pressure on Israel which they have been caught out lying about before."

Your a fool SM.

18600 people mostly women and children.

You're the spastic trying to say '18500 were Hamas and 100 were non-combatants'
Obviously that's crap.
- Where's the proportionality?
Israel may have only killed a thousand Hamas or less for all we know.
or
'There was only about 50 innocent women and kids killed the rest were staged by Hamas'.

Meanwhile 68% or buildings in northern Gaza are damaged or destroyed.
What are you going to say to that?

'Israel did a doorknock, went house to house before they launched missiles, we determined only Hamas were home at the time'.

We know for a fact Israel went blind after October 7 and all their informants were rounded up after Hamas took the servers.

Their targeting for dropping the bombs isn't even done by humans.
Targets are determined by AI which PREDICTS amount of Hamas and non-combatants killed, meaning they know they are targeting civilians, but they don't know for certain they are targeting Hamas, who are likely down in the tunnels.

As for your claims of rapes and beheadings, show me footage or it didn't happen.
Don't give me one Palestinian haters testimony as evidence, like they did in the 40 beheaded babies saga.
What we know from that for certain is that Israel lies.

They are so sensitive to public opinion their people are calling our government demanding Aussie kids don't talk about the Israel / Gaza war at school, and that they must be taught about the holocaust and to identify Jews as eternal victims of the world.

Baldrick,

You are a complete moron to accept the figures from Hamas. How do you know how many people were killed? Have you got a photo or only the word of Hamas? As for the women and children killed you posted many of these photos yourself, you idiot. Most websites keep beheaded women and babies off the net.

As for the rest of your post it comes from your arse where your brains are.

"Most websites keep beheaded women and babies off the net."
- But dead kids with their skulls cracked open and brains missing doesn't count?

"As for the women and children killed you posted many of these photos yourself, you idiot."

'many'
- No, I didn't post tens of thousands of images, just a handful.

'you idiot'.
- Yeah whatever floats your boat mate, you support the murder of innocent women and kids, so I don't care if you call me names in response to my criticism of the murderers you defend.

Call me some more names if you want, I don't mind.
- Whatever makes you happy mhaze.

But I'm not going to support the needless killing of innocent people.
- That's where my line is, and many of you chuck hissyfits trying to say I'm wrong.
I don't care.

My line... it's really black and white you know.
On the one side, you don't support the killing or harm of innocent people.

And on the other side.

You play it down, you make excuses, bs arguments etc.

No, No - FECKING NO!
I will not side with wrongdoing.
I will not side with the killing or harm of innocent people.
Some of you may, but not me.

Simple. End of Story.

I just watched some Youtube of Muslim protesters in Europe & I’m afraid I can find no other explanation than sheer insanity.
I then saw another video that said that there was nothing but desert where Israel was established & that there was no Palestine.
Someone unbiased please enlighten us on this !

Indidual; Palestine is indeed a modern word, but the Romans did use a
similar word, but Palestine did not exist until the UN made it official
somewhere about 1960.
The Canaanites and then the Jews lived there about 3000 years ago.
I have seen suggestions that the Jews were a religious group within
the Canaanites.
The Arabs arrived on the scene as conquers in 637 Ad, ie very recently.

Dear Indyvidual,

«Someone unbiased please enlighten us on this !»

The reason Muslims frantically opposed, first Zionism then its product, Israel, is because it brought progress to the region which threatened to loosen clerical control and emancipate their women.

When the Zionists first arrived, parts of Israel were desert, other parts were swamps and other parts settled. Most of Israel was then part of Syria under Ottoman control. The only "identity" the local Arabs had was of their tribe or extended family.
---

Dear Bezza,

«I have seen suggestions that the Jews were a religious group within
the Canaanites.»

And I have seen suggestions that the Jews started being a religious group only around 800 A.D. Judaism as we know it now was established by Maimonides (1138-1204).

Yes, there was priesthood before, and lots of intrigue within the priestly class, of which much of the Old Testament is a product, and there were also national protocols (such as circumcision), but ordinary Judeans were not involved in organised religious practices.

Yuyutsu, didn't Nebuchadnezzar forcibly take many Jews to Baghdad for
the purpose of taking advantage of their advanced knowledge ?
They were there for a considerable time then allowed to return to Jerusalem.

Dear Bezza,

The Jews were exiled by Nebuchadnezzar 1348 years before Baghdad was first built. That was the final wave of exile - the metal-smiths were exiled earlier so that the Jews cannot make weapons.
There is no indication that Jews had particularly advanced knowledge at the time
and as far as we know, the reason for their exile was their revolt against Babylon.

The Jews were only allowed to return by the Persians once they conquered and took over Babylon, but only a minority of them actually returned.

Notably not everyone was exiled, only the upper classes, some 4,600-10,000 of them: the poor peasants were allowed to stay behind.

When you look at the history of Pogroms in Russia, in Europe generally
and by moslems and realise how many Jews have been murdered in their
100s of thousands it is not difficult to see why Israel is taking a
hard line. Wouldn't you ?
Now these days they are not living as a minority in a country where
there are people who hate them for no cogent reasons.
Now they are not a minority they are not going to accept pogroms
ever again.
Can you blame them ?

It all raises the question; Why is the Jew hated ?
When asked of the haters there is no sensible answer or a multitude
of different excuses.
Basically from what I can see is because they are successful in life !

So because they were banned from the various skilled occupations they
went into money lending and banking. So who likes the Banks ?
It was felt that the Jews were intellectually more capable than the
rest of the population and therefore more successful and so it boiled
down to jealousy as the cause of the hatred.
Even these days they demonstrate their scientific ability.

The Koran calls for the death of the Jews because they reject Allah.
So in the middle east there can be no peace, the Moslems are committed
by the Koran to fight the Jews till the Last Day and the Jews want to
live in their historical homeland.

There is no way around this unless Islam is modified but that is
forbidden on pain of death.
If Iran obtains a nuclear weapon they will use it on Israel unless
Israel gets in first with their nuclear weapon.

That is the ultimate standoff that we are facing.

I don't care what excuses you want to make for them Bezza.
I don't care if your trying to make sense of things and understand where they are coming from.
When they do this crap, they aren't deserving of any 'understanding'

http://twitter.com/MohsinA51300440/status/1738538728476356783
http://twitter.com/Partisangirl/status/1738007839199879660
http://twitter.com/Partisangirl/status/1738073436793278899
http://twitter.com/Partisangirl/status/1738073944077516961
http://twitter.com/Partisangirl/status/1737656873413959724
http://twitter.com/Partisangirl/status/1737265939673219414
http://twitter.com/Partisangirl/status/1737068993209610376
http://twitter.com/Partisangirl/status/1736984217345732859
http://twitter.com/Partisangirl/status/1736866322397741272
http://twitter.com/Partisangirl/status/1736864621913674214
http://twitter.com/Partisangirl/status/1735625592014586178
http://twitter.com/Partisangirl/status/1735409633039368542
http://twitter.com/Partisangirl/status/1735285652475044305

I would've finished with the picture of the 9 year old girl with the sniper rifle shot to the head, half her head gone and blood spurts across the wall as whats left of her head slumps down onto the footpath, but it's been deleted.

These Israelis make the German Nazis look like schoolkids.
Israel is irredeemable, as far as I'm concerned they don't have any further right to exist after this current installment of carnage.

Being forced into a gas chamber is by far more humane than the footage I've seen.

Maybe I should take this Israeli womans attitude, towards the IDF.
http://twitter.com/Partisangirl/status/1737575080362959049

I think that Jews and Israelis, who are forever victims of the world, have as a result become the worst kind of tyrants imaginable.
They say 'never again' and act this way
But by acting this way they've made 'again' inevitable.

OK Armchair, I can see you really are steamed up about Gaza,
It all does not matter when there is no alternative.
Islam teaches right from its start that Jews are terrible people who MUST be killed.
However they have also made it clear that all Infidels must either
become moslems or pay the Jizaz tax or die.
Islam cannot tolerate any other religion.
They have a particular historical hate for Jews.
For the Jews there is no alternative, kill or be killed.

Baldrick,

Lying again I see.

You have yet to provide any evidence that a Hamas bullet did not kill the 9-year-old girl.

Advocating to gas the Jews makes you more like a Nazi than the Israelis. No wonder you love the Russian war criminals.

Baldrick,

Russia last night sent drones and missiles against Ukrainian civilians again. This is a war crime as they are not even trying to target military positions. Yet you post Twitter posts from a drugged idiot with a nose ring.(Syrian girl)

Your credibility is non-existent. Why do you hate Jews so much and love murderers?

In a grainy video, you can see her, lying on her back, dress torn, legs spread, vagina exposed. Her face is burned beyond recognition and her right hand covers her eyes. The video was shot in the early hours of Oct. 8 by a woman searching for a missing friend at the site of the rave in southern Israel where, the day before, Hamas terrorists massacred hundreds of young Israelis. The video went viral, with thousands of people responding, desperate to know if the woman in the black dress was their missing friend, sister or daughter.

One family knew exactly who she was—Gal Abdush, mother of two from a working-class town in central Israel, who disappeared from the rave that night with her husband.

Based largely on the video evidence—which was verified by The New York Times—Israeli police officials said they believed that Ms. Abdush was raped, and she has become a symbol of the horrors visited upon Israeli women and girls during the Oct. 7 attacks.

Israeli officials say that everywhere Hamas terrorists struck—the rave, the military bases along the Gaza border and the kibbutzim—they brutalized women.

A two-month investigation by The Times uncovered painful new details, establishing that the attacks against women were not isolated events but part of a broader pattern of gender-based violence on Oct. 7.

Relying on video footage, photographs, GPS data from mobile phones and interviews with more than 150 people, including witnesses, medical personnel, soldiers and rape counselors, The Times identified at least seven locations where Israeli women and girls appear to have been sexually assaulted or mutilated.

Full investigation: http://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/28/world/middleeast/oct-7-attacks-hamas-israel-sexual-violence.html

Having read all these replies.

Every reason the Arabs give to justify Hamas's attacks on Israel
It can be proven to be inaccurate if the the real history is studied or researched. The Arabs as I have noted for years cherry pick the information and sequence of events. Maybe it is because they are given these false stories blaming everyone but the Muslims for everything in the mosques, by Imans that lie to protect their own power.

We have our own Western media doing the same thing, twisting stories or simply lying by omitting the facts completely.

The United Nations can no longer be trusted after their support and profiteering from mandating an unsafe vaccine onto the public
They are also scheming to bring in a Digital Banking System. A QR Scan which you will need to produce to gain access to any service including your Bank Acct. On that scan will be a people Approval App which will block you from these services if your citizen score is not high enough.

An unsafe vaccine that has resulted in 17-20%, excess deaths per year
in many countries that had high vaccination rates.
No wonder we have an ambulance shortage