Hi David,

When the evil past of religion is pointed out to the religious, many simply say, "Oh well, that wasn't religion, this is religion, I can't be responsible for what non religious people did, yuda, yuda, yuda." Its a cop out.

Recently when I put forward for discussion; "Burning people at the stake in 1523, by Christians in the name of God, was just as a Christian act, as Christians in 2023 giving welfare to the needy." The fact that we approve of one act today, and not the others doesn't make the first act un-christian. For me if a Christian does something in the name of his God, then its a Christian act, rightly or wrongly. Some in the discussion wouldn't have a bar of it, others thought maybe so, they could see where I was coming from.

They should get rid of the welcome to country as well.

I am tired of being welcomed into my own country.

Dear Paul1405,

The Nazis printed Martin Luther's diatribes against the Jews to justify their genocide. As far as I am concerned, the Holocaust was a Christian act justified by the founder of a major Christian denomination. When the Nazis rounded up the Jews of Rome Pope Pius remained silent. The Nazis didn't invent Jew hatred. It was a Christian tradition, and the Nazis appealed to an endemic hate in the German population fostered by both Protestant and Catholic religious tradition. During WW2 the Japanese didn't share the Christian gestalt and gave Jews who managed to get there refuge in Shanghai from Christian evil.

Recent popes have acknowledged the evil of their past.

https://scholars.wlu.ca/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2453&context=consensus is an account of Lutheran feeling toward the hatred fostered by the founder of their religion.

Some Christians feel remorse, but I don't most even recognise their responsibility. Some would deny that it was really religion.

Dear Paul,

A Christian act, past, present or future, need not necessarily be a religious act.

Some use knives to stab people, others to butcher animals, others to operate and save lives.

Just because some Christian people use Christianity as their religion (or part thereof) does not mean that all other Christians also use it that way.

Dear shadowminister,

Our country, Australia, was declared Terra Nullius or empty land when the British settled it. The British said the land was theirs and waged a war against the people who were living here. Other wars are remembered in the Australian War Memorial, but the war that marked the beginning of English settlement isn't. We can't undo the past, but we can acknowledge it.

I enjoy living in Australia and think the mention of who was living in Australia before the English took the land and forced an alien religion and culture on the Aborigines who weren't massacred is a good gesture. I assume that's what you're objecting to when you object to welcome to country.

Present day Australia is a fairly humane and pleasant place. I appreciate what is done for me as a 97 year old man, and I think acknowledgement of what has been done in the past is another manifestation of current Australian decency.

davidf,

<<We do not agree on the definition of a religion. Without that agreement I don't think we can have a good discussion on the subject. I will try to avoid commenting on your posts.>>

Life in principle, a good discussion or debate is not about agreement. If two people always agree, one of them naturally becomes completely redundant.

Also, please be aware if you comment here, there will be people with positions different to yours and you can (if matured and smart enough) should be able to have a good discussion on a subject with others regardless of differing positions.

It is clear you only want to discuss matters with people you agree with or those who put out views that align with your own. I'd encourage you to take an alternative approach.

We are facing a range of global issues today, including the Lord's Prayer being read in parliament and at local council meetings. As people we must be willing to debate the issue/s at hand.