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Dear Fester,

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You will perhaps recall that Jesus is quoted in the synoptic gospels as having said :

« Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's. »
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This is a widely quoted definition of the relationship between Christianity, secular government, and society.

As we all know, the UK does not have a secular government. The UK has an official state religion. The British Crown is both Head of State and Head of the Church of England and has been since the 16th century.

Historically, the Parliament of England was the legislature of the Kingdom of England that evolved from the great council of bishops and peers that advised the English monarch. The Great Council was first referred to as “Parliament” (from French parler “to speak”) in 1236 during the reign of Henry III (1216–1272).

The Westminster political system was subsequently conceived, organised and developed over centuries as a joint effort of the Church and Parliament under the British Crown. It was named after Westminster Palace where Britain’s bicameral Parliament meets – just 200 meters from Westminster Abbey, the magnificent gothic cathedral owned and administered by the British Crown (not by the Church of England, as one might imagine), that has played an important role in British political, social and cultural affairs for more than 1,000 years.

In their great wisdom, our forefathers took inspiration not only from the Westminster system but also from the 1st Amendment of the US Constitution in drawing up our old Australian colonial constitution – which states that:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof...".

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(Continued …)

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Hi Fester,

I don't think David is "typecasting Christian missionaries", he is given his opinion from a balanced view. I can say my, experience with male Catholic clergy, in rough terms I found one third okay, not menacing or threatening, one third ambivalent and one third down right nut jobs, does that mean I should accept their behaviour because only a minority were nut jobs, by that I mean sadistic, perverted religious zealots. No, the nut job minority on balance brought the whole group into disrepute with me.

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(Continued …)

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Expanding on this, Jefferson famously wrote in 1802 :

« Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State ».

As a result, maybe it was to placate the foreseeable discontentment of the staunch Christian members of the then-Australian population that the authors of our old colonial constitution undertook the delicate balancing act of conserving the Westminster Standing Orders that imposed Christian prayers at each sitting of our federal and state parliaments and local governments.

But, however you look at it, the secular constitutional rule of “a wall of separation between Church and state”, and the Westminster practice of saying Christian prayers at each sitting of our federal and state parliaments and local governments, are in total contradiction with each other.

I, personally, formulate the wish that if and when we become a republic, we eliminate this blatant contradiction by removing all religious practices from our current Westminster Standing Orders.

« Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's. »

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In the 1901 census 96% of Australians professed to be Christian, with no religion or other being 1.8%, around 98% answered the question on religion. By 2021 93% answered the religion question with 44% professing to be Christian and 49% answering no religion or other. The decline in Christianity, and the growth in 'no religion' has been around 8% to 10% in recent census, and that is expected to continue, along with a small increase in other non christian religions.

I would say in 1901 there would have been no problem with the 'Lords Prayer' being recited before the start of parliamentary and council proceedings, in those times there would have been no problem if the Archbishop of Canterbury had turned up at Federal Parliment and blessed the whole congregation, all 111 of the blokes, today its somewhat different.

David f, what you have quoted here,"
"I don't think that animism is more ridiculous than a religion which has a god in three parts, life after death, virgins having babies, hell, heaven and the devil." is a Catholic view of Biblical religion, it is not the basis of Jesus teachings.
God is one Spirit expressed in living character.
Jesus never taught he was miraculously born.
The term devil applies to anyone who opposes.
Heaven is a place of being blessed.
Hell is a place of unfulfilled life.

Dear Josephus,

You wrote: "The term devil applies to anyone who opposes."

One whom opposes me is not a devil. The person who opposes me is merely someone with a different opinion. Apparently, your religion believes that heaven and hell are places.

You also wrote: "God is one Spirit expressed in living character."

I don't get any meaning from that statement. The Bible is a document containing writings produced over a period of time which was not peer reviewed, has many different versions and errors of translation. The prophesy of a virgin birth appears in the King James Protestant version. It is not in the original Masoritic text. The Bible contains both beautiful passages and nonsense. It has phrases such as the "four corners of the earth" which indicates that the individuals who wrote that part thought that the earth had corners. The Bible has greatly influenced western culture but accepts such concepts as slavery which is no longer acceptable in most of the current world. It is not a document to live by.

Anyhow, freedom of religion means to me that all beliefs are to be given equal respect whether it be Catholicism, your religion, animism, Buddhism, Judaism, Hinduism etc. I hope that humanity will become sufficiently enlightened to discard all forms of supernatural belief and appreciate the wonder of the real world.