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The Forum > Article Comments > Beyond minarets: Europe’s growing problem with Islam > Comments

Beyond minarets: Europe’s growing problem with Islam : Comments

By Shada Islam, published 19/1/2010

Can one be both European and Muslim?

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There seem to be many incorrect statements in this article.
Firstly, the Pew Research Center states that there are 54 million Muslims in Europe NOW and that it is expected that 25% of Europe could be Muslim at the current rate of growth in 11 years. That is unless there is a groundswell against allowing an explosion of such an obviously non-European thinking population that has some difficulty in assimilating into any community other than an Islamic one. The problem is too many years of Islamic teaching has lead to values that are totally contrary to the educated and in the main, cultured population of Europe. No one wants Europe to change its living standards, its heritage, culture and values and compromise hundreds of years of art, music and education just to allow for Islamic people to take over yet another part of the world after having left their original countries in a very poor state with little education and certainly an entirely different lifestyle than Europe represents.
Islam has contributed almost nothing to science, education, music, art and 21st century standards and in most Islamic countries little has changed in 800 years when Islamic countries were leaders in so many ways. But it is the last 800 years of teachings and totally subservience of Muslims to the Islamic dogmas that has isolated them from worthwhile development with sharia law controlling every minute of every day. Like other religions they have a God and an afterlife and in that way are no different to the Roman church. The difference is in the way they achieve their dominance over their submissive followers. Catholicism through the promise of heaven, the threat of hell and a 'desirable' life after death and Islam through sharia law and all that means, together with the promise of a somewhat bizarre afterlife.
One cannot expect Europeans with their 'developed' backgrounds to subscribe to and embrace a lesser lifestyle. Why should they?

The philosophies and cultures are too far apart. Never the twain shall meet.
Posted by rexw, Tuesday, 19 January 2010 12:11:17 PM
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'The overarching challenge for European governments is to shift the focus from bans and restrictions on Islam and Muslims and instead try to forge a cohesive and inclusive society where all citizens - including the continent's Muslims - feel at home.'

To state the obvious - Europe is Europe. It's not about Muslims feeling at home, it's about Europeans feeling at home.

If Europeans find Mosques and their ranting Imams confronting and unsettling then Muslims should become Christian or secular and not build them. If there is a compelling need to visit a mosque then there are plenty of Mosques and ranting Imams in the Middle East and North Africa where I'm sure Muslims will feel right at home.
Posted by TR, Tuesday, 19 January 2010 12:30:46 PM
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Well said, TR
New settlers being generously given the opportunity to live in another country, someone else's country that is, and who try and get that country to conform to their ways, should go right back home again.
If you want to stay, YOU fit in. The excessive emphasis on political correctness by allowing special privileges such as approving the use of sharia law in the UK (what next!) hopefully will never carry any weight in Australia and should not do so in Europe either. Anyone travelling to Europe to see the grandeur and culture of their years of history want it to still be there in 100 years time. There is absolutely no comparison with European history and the history of Islamic countries.
Europe's growing problem with Islam is Islam itself.
Posted by rexw, Tuesday, 19 January 2010 1:02:13 PM
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I'd be interested to see where you get your statistics from, rexw.

>>Firstly, the Pew Research Center states that there are 54 million Muslims in Europe NOW<<

According to last October's report in the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life (clearly, a very different organization), they counted 38 million. Here's the link - it would be handy if you could provide yours, so that we can compare sources.

http://pewforum.org/docs/?DocID=464

"Europe, which includes 50 countries and territories, has about 38 million Muslims, constituting about 5% of its population."

It goes on to point out that 40% of these live in Russia. And that 60% of the total live in predominantly Muslim countries - Turkey, Bosnia etc.

But please, feel free to direct our attention to different numbers. While you are about it, let us know where to find the math behind this statement of yours:

>>25% of Europe could be Muslim at the current rate of growth in 11 years.<<

By my reckoning, that will be around 200 million. Excluding immigration for a moment, that would mean that every Muslim woman between the age of 18 and 35 would need to produce twentyseven children in the next ten years.

Challenging.

I know, I know, it is really tedious having to justify such exciting "statistics". But some of us are interested to learn, rather than simply hyperventilate.

But I loved this little gem you gave us:

>>The difference is in the way they achieve their dominance over their submissive followers. Catholicism through the promise of heaven, the threat of hell and a 'desirable' life after death and Islam through sharia law and all that means, together with the promise of a somewhat bizarre afterlife.<<

They sound remarkably similar to me: the old good cop, bad cop routine, overseen by a bunch of guys in robes.

Look forward to seeing the references. Don't forget, will you. Just don't quote the IPCC, at least for a little while.
Posted by Pericles, Tuesday, 19 January 2010 1:59:15 PM
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Yesterday, in a comment on an article about the plight of the Copts in Egypt, I commended a book by Egyptian born feminist Nonie Darwish entitled 'Cruel and Usual Punishment'. It has as its subtitle 'The terrifying global implications of Islamic Law'.

I also stated that Darwish has excellent qualifications: she was prevented from speaking (due to Muslim 'pressure') at both Princeton and Columbia universities. Columbia did however invite and allow to speak unhindered that liberal the President of Iran.

Darwish, together with Hirsi Ali should be compulsory reading for all who wish to comment about Islam in Western countries. Pericles please note! By the way Pericles, you use a pseudonym from the background of Western democratic reasoning. I can think of nothing further from that than Islam. Perhaps you should change your pseudonym!

No, please don't. OLO would not be the same without Pericles.

Cheers

And read that book.

Please
Posted by eyejaw, Tuesday, 19 January 2010 2:54:25 PM
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Shada Islam,

The following comments concern CONTEMPORARY Islam. I emphasise the word "contemporary" because religions evolve. The Islam of, say, 2050, may be different to the Islam of 2010.

Islam is a form of Nazism. It has a totalitarian vision of society. Like the Nazis before them, Islamics exercise power through terror and intimidation. The extent to which Europeans have ALREADY allowed themselves to be cowed may be seen from this piece in der Spiegel:

THE WEST IS CHOKED BY FEAR

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,669888,00.html

Quotes:

"...In that atmosphere, [of 1988] no German publisher had the courage to publish Rushdie's book. This led a handful of famous German authors, led by Günter Grass, to take the initiative to ensure that Rushdie's novel could appear in Germany ... Dozens of publishing houses, organizations, journalists, politicians and other prominent members of German society were involved in the joint venture, which was the broadest coalition that had ever been formed in postwar German history.

That was then.

"This time, however, ... hardly anyone has showed any solidarity with the threatened Danish cartoonists -- to the contrary. Grass, ... expressed his understanding for the hurt feelings of the Muslims and the violent reactions that resulted."

"...experts who had in the past defended every criticism of the pope and the Church as well as every blasphemous piece of art in the name of freedom of opinion…in the case of the Muhammad cartoons, suddenly held the view that one must take other people's religious feelings into consideration.

"But that argument was clearly just an excuse, a way of excusing the fact they had been silenced by fear…Against this threat, it seemed more reasonable and, above all, safer, to show respect to religious feelings rather than insist on the right to freedom of expression."

"A German-Turkish lawyer who lives in central Berlin recently had to go into hiding because she became the recipient of death threats after publishing a book. The tome doesn't include any caricatures of Muhammad. It's just the title that serves as a provocation: " Islam Needs a Sexual Revolution."
Posted by stevenlmeyer, Tuesday, 19 January 2010 3:33:31 PM
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